4 ms·

Opportunity to convert office space to living space? Nimby-proof housing increase?

readthenotes1 3y ago
Apparently it is incredibly expensive to convert office to living and meet most housing standards (windows, bathrooms, HVAC, etc.) I recall a story about a month ago that a firm said they would be willing to have undertaken that cost for a tower in downtown San Francisco but the city, and it's wisdom, had passed an ordinance that required a certain percentage of new housing to go for low income people and thus for low rent and when that was baked in it made absolutely no sense (or cents). So not only do you have the trouble of the cost of conversion, you also have the trouble of meddling do-gooders messing things up (because one of the easiest ways to reduce rent for everybody is to slam a lot of supply into the market)
- anon35 3y ago
  See also good podcast dedicated to this topic: Why can't we turn all the empty offices into apartment buildings? https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/why-cant-we-turn-all-the-empty-offices https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/why-cant-we-turn-all-the-empty...
- devoutsalsa 3y ago
  When I moved to San Francisco for the 2nd time in 2016, I was looking at bottom of the barrel apartments. One unit was a studio in an office building, but without a bathroom. For some reason the shared office bathroom had a shower. I was imagining it walking down the hall in my underpants while accountants and lawyers came to work.
  - oldbbsnickname 3y ago
    Was it cheaper than living in a storage unit or someone's rented closet? I kid you not that people in SF both live in storage units (with power, cooking, fridge, and TV) and rent walk-in closets to live in.
    - cj 3y ago
      Oh boy, I remember 10 years ago living in SF and renting out an alcove in our 3 bedroom apartment for $350/month. It was a 10 foot by 10 foot nook off a hallway without a door. That was after converting the living room to an extra bedroom. All to pay the monthly rent (no profiting). Fun times though!
    - devoutsalsa 3y ago
      Haha, I don't remember exactly, but I do recall that everything below about $1600/month was a little too weird.
- BenFranklin100 3y ago
  Those ordinances are commonly called “Inclusionary Zoning” ordinances. Even their supporters acknowledge they frequently adversely affect housing production. It’s effectively a tax on new homes.
codezero 3y ago
From my experience going through a lot of offices in SF, they are really good at flexibly up and downsizing workspaces. This space will open to smaller companies or will be sliced and diced into sizes appropriate for anyone willing to buy for commercial purposes. Granted my experience comes from before work from home, so maybe things have changed, but I doubt it will change to residential unless the location was already mixed use.
mvncleaninst 3y ago
I don't think that would mesh well with the neighborhood character
oldbbsnickname 3y ago
Zoning issues, time, and money. An airbnb for hotdesk coworking is one possibility for space monetization, but I would probably want to limit it to people with Fortune 1000 email addresses and certain designated floors/areas for security reasons. One key enabler would be integration with corporate building security systems.
- theossuary 3y ago
  I still have fortune 1000 email address, they forgot to turn it off. I'll swing by and say hi (:
- dicriseg 3y ago
  > An airbnb for hotdesk coworking WeWork was just ahead of their time!

Apparently it is incredibly expensive to convert office to living and meet most housing standards (windows, bathrooms, HVAC, etc.) I recall a story about a month ago that a firm said they would be willing to have undertaken that cost for a tower in downtown San Francisco but the city, and it's wisdom, had passed an ordinance that required a certain percentage of new housing to go for low income people and thus for low rent and when that was baked in it made absolutely no sense (or cents). So not only do you have the trouble of the cost of conversion, you also have the trouble of meddling do-gooders messing things up (because one of the easiest ways to reduce rent for everybody is to slam a lot of supply into the market)

anon35 3y ago
See also good podcast dedicated to this topic: Why can't we turn all the empty offices into apartment buildings? https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/why-cant-we-turn-all-the-empty-offices https://pjvogt.substack.com/p/why-cant-we-turn-all-the-empty...
devoutsalsa 3y ago
When I moved to San Francisco for the 2nd time in 2016, I was looking at bottom of the barrel apartments. One unit was a studio in an office building, but without a bathroom. For some reason the shared office bathroom had a shower. I was imagining it walking down the hall in my underpants while accountants and lawyers came to work.
- oldbbsnickname 3y ago
  Was it cheaper than living in a storage unit or someone's rented closet? I kid you not that people in SF both live in storage units (with power, cooking, fridge, and TV) and rent walk-in closets to live in.
  - cj 3y ago
    Oh boy, I remember 10 years ago living in SF and renting out an alcove in our 3 bedroom apartment for $350/month. It was a 10 foot by 10 foot nook off a hallway without a door. That was after converting the living room to an extra bedroom. All to pay the monthly rent (no profiting). Fun times though!
  - devoutsalsa 3y ago
    Haha, I don't remember exactly, but I do recall that everything below about $1600/month was a little too weird.
BenFranklin100 3y ago
Those ordinances are commonly called “Inclusionary Zoning” ordinances. Even their supporters acknowledge they frequently adversely affect housing production. It’s effectively a tax on new homes.

codezero 3y ago

From my experience going through a lot of offices in SF, they are really good at flexibly up and downsizing workspaces. This space will open to smaller companies or will be sliced and diced into sizes appropriate for anyone willing to buy for commercial purposes. Granted my experience comes from before work from home, so maybe things have changed, but I doubt it will change to residential unless the location was already mixed use.

mvncleaninst 3y ago

I don't think that would mesh well with the neighborhood character

oldbbsnickname 3y ago

Zoning issues, time, and money. An airbnb for hotdesk coworking is one possibility for space monetization, but I would probably want to limit it to people with Fortune 1000 email addresses and certain designated floors/areas for security reasons. One key enabler would be integration with corporate building security systems.

theossuary 3y ago
I still have fortune 1000 email address, they forgot to turn it off. I'll swing by and say hi (:
dicriseg 3y ago
> An airbnb for hotdesk coworking WeWork was just ahead of their time!