5 ms·

Perhaps I am too young, but I never understood the love-affair with the movie and the endless debate if the definitive cut should/not include the ending narrati

Perhaps I am too young, but I never understood the love-affair with the movie and the endless debate if the definitive cut should/not include the ending narration. Are there other movies which have provoked such a wild sub-culture of the "definitive cut" which embraces the producer's true intentions? The Justice League Snyder cut is the only other thing that comes to mind.

Minor49er 3y ago
The original Star Wars trilogy is probably the best example here. (Han shot first, by the way)
- c420 3y ago
  Still waiting for the Bigger Luke cut. https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/oct/27/the-bigger-luke-hypothesis-going-deep-on-star-wars-most-absurd-fan-theory https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/oct/27/the-bigger-l...
  - fbdab103 3y ago
    This is why the Internet was invented.
    - CamperBob2 3y ago
      Meh, it's not as plausible as the "Jar-Jar is a high-level Sith" theory, to which I personally subscribe.
corethree 3y ago
When it came out there was nothing else like it for a loong time. As time goes on audiences become much more sophisticated but they retain the nostalgia of the past and remain unable to differentiate between nostalgia and modern standards. If blade runner was released nowadays it would probably be pretty bad. The snyder cut is just low brow stuff. The DC cinematic universe is even more cheese than marvel. People liked the snyder cut because they just really wanted to like it. It's like a beacon of hope for a crap franchise. When you invest that much energy hoping for something (even though the snyder cut was only slightly better but overall still crappy) people have to make themselves love it.
- FpUser 3y ago
  >"As time goes on audiences become much more sophisticated" I find it highly untrue. Except few particular segments general audiences become dumber over the time.
  - corethree 3y ago
    They do. The movies of the past are cheesy now. They don't age well. What do you think that term even means? It means growing sophistication of the audience. I'm not saying their IQ is improving (even though statistically this is true) I'm saying standards are going up. Constantly.
    - FpUser 3y ago
      Standards are up for technical/video quality which is amazing. Quality of content - sorry we must be watching totally different things. While there are obvious gems from either time period the ratio of good to bad is decreasing (this is of course my personal judgement which is as good as yours)
      - corethree 3y ago
        Story telling is increasing. You just can't tell. Acting is becoming superior as well. It doesn't make logical sense for everything about the movie industry to improve except for story telling. Think about this statistically. Most likely what's going on is warped perception. I'm about 40 years old. For all 40 years of my life it's been the same problem. Why are all modern movies shit? In the 80s. Why are all modern movies shit? In the 90s... Same question... In the 2010s... Same chanted cliche mantra.. and now in the 2020s you're saying the same stuff they said was crap in the 80s is now good? No it's a mirage. It's because all movie makers are in a constant race with audience expectations. New original plot patterns are novel at first, but eventually bore audiences and movie makers have to now improve. They copy a good pattern for a bit for some profit but audiences wise up and start saying what they say every decade. "Modern movies are samey and crap." But really it's getting better. Take a story like inception. There's nothing like it if you rewind time 30 years back. Inception is a movie of the times a indicator of growing audience sophistication and movie making sophistication. Even avengers end game is a sign of the times. If that movie and the whole franchise came out in the 60s at the same quality it is now it would have floored everyone and won academy awards across the board for story and effects. However because it came out recently there's a large cohort of people who call marvel stuff cliche and stupid. Why? Because it's not too divergent from the tons of movies that came out at the same time. Take, everything everywhere all at once. That's another movie about directors forced to push the boundaries of story telling because of huge audience sophistication. Multiverse stuff is the latest trend but eventually that will get bland and you'll hear the same shit from hipsters about how crappy everything is. Modern movies aren't all crap. It's because the pace of improvement is too slow so and because directors re-use popular story telling devices and plot patterns for about a decade that makes things seem shitty.
ChatGTP 3y ago
Once I tried to watch BR for about 4 nights in a row, I fell asleep after 10 minutes each time. I hate to say it but I found the original a horrible bore.
spicyjpeg 3y ago
There are quite a few movies that got the "definitive cut" treatment. As already mentioned by others the original Star Wars trilogy has spawned a slew of unofficial cuts, with some aiming to undo the controversial edits made for the home releases and restore as much of the original theatrical releases as possible [1] while others try to offer a completely new viewing experience. More recently, fan made cuts have been surfacing for some TV and anime series, especially long-running ones with known pacing issues. For instance, the popularity of Netflix's One Piece live action adaptation has led to an influx of people watching the original anime through a project that gets rid of all the fillers and content not present in the manga [2]. [1] https://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com/project-4k77/ https://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com/project-4k77/ [2] https://onepace.net/ https://onepace.net/
- tetris11 3y ago
  TeamFourStar on YouTube are renoknowned for their comedian efforts on making an abridged version of the DragonBall series
thinkingemote 3y ago
its because the cuts dramatically change the endings and fundamental meaning of a main part of the film.
JohnBooty 3y ago
As a somewhat old greybeard at this point, let me apologize for all of the other greybeards who never shut up about this movie. I don't blame you if you watch this movie and are left wondering what all the fuss is about. It's sort of like the LOTR novels, the original Star Wars movies, or maybe even the original Alien movie. Or listening to the Beatles or Nirvana. They were the progenitors of absolutely zillions of derivative works, to the point where Blade Runner's "neon noir cyberscape" aesthetic and LOTR's "humans n' orcs n' elves n' wizards" dynamic have utterly saturated and permeated our cultural landscape. So if you experience these things in reverse chronological order, once you get back to the "originals" it's understandable if you wonder what the fuss is all about. For those who did experience things in roughly chronological order, there's a real thrill and nostalgia attached to these utterly game-changing works. And obviously there are lots of other folks who enjoy that kind of uh, cultural spelunking or whatever we want to call it. There's a lot of fun to be had if you enjoy exploring art that way. On the other hand... there's no reason to do it that way either. Don't listen to any stupid old nerd who tells you that you have to love Blade Runner or some other retro-ass thing. If everybody just worshipped the past we'd never come up with anything new.
- filoleg 3y ago
  Great explanation. Another example in a very similar vein - Akira. Watched it for the first time ever around 7 years ago, and while I loved it, it was very clear that it was pretty much the origin of a massive number of modern tropes and cliches in anime.
  - JohnBooty 3y ago
    Haha nice. Did you like it? That story is a little bit nonsensical. It's an extremely truncated version of the manga, which actually makes narrative sense. I love the anime regardless. Just insane animation and yeah, the "vibe."
    - filoleg 3y ago
      I liked it, it was quite a wild ride. Though I feel a bit sad, as it definitely would have had way more of a mindblowing effect if I watched it during a time period when all the tropes it introduced weren’t that commonplace and beaten to death by now. The whole thing felt disturbing and shocking in just the right way, and i totally believe that this “vibe” is still the same today.

Minor49er 3y ago

The original Star Wars trilogy is probably the best example here. (Han shot first, by the way)

c420 3y ago
Still waiting for the Bigger Luke cut. https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/oct/27/the-bigger-luke-hypothesis-going-deep-on-star-wars-most-absurd-fan-theory https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/oct/27/the-bigger-l...
- fbdab103 3y ago
  This is why the Internet was invented.
  - CamperBob2 3y ago
    Meh, it's not as plausible as the "Jar-Jar is a high-level Sith" theory, to which I personally subscribe.

corethree 3y ago

When it came out there was nothing else like it for a loong time. As time goes on audiences become much more sophisticated but they retain the nostalgia of the past and remain unable to differentiate between nostalgia and modern standards. If blade runner was released nowadays it would probably be pretty bad. The snyder cut is just low brow stuff. The DC cinematic universe is even more cheese than marvel. People liked the snyder cut because they just really wanted to like it. It's like a beacon of hope for a crap franchise. When you invest that much energy hoping for something (even though the snyder cut was only slightly better but overall still crappy) people have to make themselves love it.

FpUser 3y ago
>"As time goes on audiences become much more sophisticated" I find it highly untrue. Except few particular segments general audiences become dumber over the time.
- corethree 3y ago
  They do. The movies of the past are cheesy now. They don't age well. What do you think that term even means? It means growing sophistication of the audience. I'm not saying their IQ is improving (even though statistically this is true) I'm saying standards are going up. Constantly.
  - FpUser 3y ago
    Standards are up for technical/video quality which is amazing. Quality of content - sorry we must be watching totally different things. While there are obvious gems from either time period the ratio of good to bad is decreasing (this is of course my personal judgement which is as good as yours)
    - corethree 3y ago
      Story telling is increasing. You just can't tell. Acting is becoming superior as well. It doesn't make logical sense for everything about the movie industry to improve except for story telling. Think about this statistically. Most likely what's going on is warped perception. I'm about 40 years old. For all 40 years of my life it's been the same problem. Why are all modern movies shit? In the 80s. Why are all modern movies shit? In the 90s... Same question... In the 2010s... Same chanted cliche mantra.. and now in the 2020s you're saying the same stuff they said was crap in the 80s is now good? No it's a mirage. It's because all movie makers are in a constant race with audience expectations. New original plot patterns are novel at first, but eventually bore audiences and movie makers have to now improve. They copy a good pattern for a bit for some profit but audiences wise up and start saying what they say every decade. "Modern movies are samey and crap." But really it's getting better. Take a story like inception. There's nothing like it if you rewind time 30 years back. Inception is a movie of the times a indicator of growing audience sophistication and movie making sophistication. Even avengers end game is a sign of the times. If that movie and the whole franchise came out in the 60s at the same quality it is now it would have floored everyone and won academy awards across the board for story and effects. However because it came out recently there's a large cohort of people who call marvel stuff cliche and stupid. Why? Because it's not too divergent from the tons of movies that came out at the same time. Take, everything everywhere all at once. That's another movie about directors forced to push the boundaries of story telling because of huge audience sophistication. Multiverse stuff is the latest trend but eventually that will get bland and you'll hear the same shit from hipsters about how crappy everything is. Modern movies aren't all crap. It's because the pace of improvement is too slow so and because directors re-use popular story telling devices and plot patterns for about a decade that makes things seem shitty.

ChatGTP 3y ago

Once I tried to watch BR for about 4 nights in a row, I fell asleep after 10 minutes each time. I hate to say it but I found the original a horrible bore.

spicyjpeg 3y ago

There are quite a few movies that got the "definitive cut" treatment. As already mentioned by others the original Star Wars trilogy has spawned a slew of unofficial cuts, with some aiming to undo the controversial edits made for the home releases and restore as much of the original theatrical releases as possible [1] while others try to offer a completely new viewing experience. More recently, fan made cuts have been surfacing for some TV and anime series, especially long-running ones with known pacing issues. For instance, the popularity of Netflix's One Piece live action adaptation has led to an influx of people watching the original anime through a project that gets rid of all the fillers and content not present in the manga [2]. [1] https://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com/project-4k77/ https://www.thestarwarstrilogy.com/project-4k77/ [2] https://onepace.net/ https://onepace.net/

tetris11 3y ago
TeamFourStar on YouTube are renoknowned for their comedian efforts on making an abridged version of the DragonBall series

thinkingemote 3y ago

its because the cuts dramatically change the endings and fundamental meaning of a main part of the film.

JohnBooty 3y ago

As a somewhat old greybeard at this point, let me apologize for all of the other greybeards who never shut up about this movie. I don't blame you if you watch this movie and are left wondering what all the fuss is about. It's sort of like the LOTR novels, the original Star Wars movies, or maybe even the original Alien movie. Or listening to the Beatles or Nirvana. They were the progenitors of absolutely zillions of derivative works, to the point where Blade Runner's "neon noir cyberscape" aesthetic and LOTR's "humans n' orcs n' elves n' wizards" dynamic have utterly saturated and permeated our cultural landscape. So if you experience these things in reverse chronological order, once you get back to the "originals" it's understandable if you wonder what the fuss is all about. For those who did experience things in roughly chronological order, there's a real thrill and nostalgia attached to these utterly game-changing works. And obviously there are lots of other folks who enjoy that kind of uh, cultural spelunking or whatever we want to call it. There's a lot of fun to be had if you enjoy exploring art that way. On the other hand... there's no reason to do it that way either. Don't listen to any stupid old nerd who tells you that you have to love Blade Runner or some other retro-ass thing. If everybody just worshipped the past we'd never come up with anything new.

filoleg 3y ago
Great explanation. Another example in a very similar vein - Akira. Watched it for the first time ever around 7 years ago, and while I loved it, it was very clear that it was pretty much the origin of a massive number of modern tropes and cliches in anime.
- JohnBooty 3y ago
  Haha nice. Did you like it? That story is a little bit nonsensical. It's an extremely truncated version of the manga, which actually makes narrative sense. I love the anime regardless. Just insane animation and yeah, the "vibe."
  - filoleg 3y ago
    I liked it, it was quite a wild ride. Though I feel a bit sad, as it definitely would have had way more of a mindblowing effect if I watched it during a time period when all the tropes it introduced weren’t that commonplace and beaten to death by now. The whole thing felt disturbing and shocking in just the right way, and i totally believe that this “vibe” is still the same today.