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They can’t. And they shouldn’t. Massive amounts of pro EU propaganda is pumped out in each country every year though.

Krasnol 3y ago
How about: less drama? There are things where you can't trust "the EU" (whatever this is supposed to be, the Parliament? The Commission? The countries?) and there are things where you can and absolutely should. Generalizations are propaganda, and this is what you do here.
- zosima 3y ago
  EU legislation has a long history of being overly complex, unnecessary and unnecessarily detailed and perfectly hostile to both EU citizens and companies. I don't see exactly what part of it you should be trusting. I'd never trust neither the commission nor the parliament. They have so many ridiculous failures under their wings, that nobody well-informed would. The best you can hope for with new legislation is that it's so vague and incomprehensible that in practice it's going to be unenforceable. But that's only so long as the judicial stays sane, which you can only hope for. In addition EU is working hard to gain control of information flows at the moment. Censoring and cooperating with censors to block information providers in EU. All of this happens very discreetly and very silently. And I'd wager 95% of citizens are unaware that their right of free speech and information about events is being curtailed to degrees that is completely incompatible with a free society. How you can even begin to trust a creation acting like this, is beyond my imagination.
  - toyg 3y ago
    The EU also has a long history of raising standards in many, many areas across the continent. From worker rights to environmental rules to building codes to car manufacturing to passport controls to food quality standards, the EU pushes most members to raise their game every day. Yes, there are failures because nothing is perfect, but they pale in comparison to the massive amount of work that improves European lives every day.
    - zosima 3y ago
      All of these things could, and usually have, as well be done by national parliaments. In fact many a time national environmental legislation has been kept back, waiting for EU legislation on the subject matter. (Which can take many, many years). The main difference between a law by most national parliaments and EU legislation is that the EU legislation is usually wildly more complex, oftentimes to the extent that nobody anywhere really can understand it. E.g. take a look at the GDPR or the EU electricity regulation. You will be getting wildly different answers to many questions, depending on who you ask. And the reason is clear: The regulation is unreadable and inconsistent. On top of that, one would be thinking that EU should be painting legislation with broad clear strokes, for the national parliaments to implement the specifics. But they don't, often the EU commission goes down to a level of detail that you'd never even see in specific national legislation. I can understand how lawyers see this monster as a great. It's an infinite source of income. But for the average citizen and cooperation, the good EU legislation would have been much better, had it been implemented by national parliaments. And much of the bad legislation would not have been possible in the national parliaments, where completely obscure nonsense usually is read by at least someone, that will call it out.
      - Swenrekcah 3y ago
        >The main difference between a law by most national parliaments and EU legislation is that the EU legislation is usually wildly more complex, oftentimes to the extent that nobody anywhere really can understand it. E.g. take a look at the GDPR or the EU electricity regulation. You will be getting wildly different answers to many questions, depending on who you ask. And the reason is clear: The regulation is unreadable and inconsistent. Isn't this true of any complex law anywhere? The interpretation varies and is eventually decided upon by the courts and following that sometimes additional rectifying legislation. >On top of that, one would be thinking that EU should be painting legislation with broad clear strokes, for the national parliaments to implement the specifics. But they don't, often the EU commission goes down to a level of detail that you'd never even see in specific national legislation. I'm curious about what you mean here, do you have any specific examples? I'm from a country that would benefit immensely from EU laws in pretty much every area, but I also recognize the hazards of pushing legislative decisions too far away. But for all the criticism the EU gets on that point, it is actually much easier for individual countries to disagree and do their own thing in the EU than it is for states in the United States, it seems to me. It's not like there are "federal" EU agents running around and arresting people.
  - anigbrowl 3y ago
    A federation of 27 different countries (many of which used to war with each other) with nearly as many languages is sometimes complex and unwieldy? Who could have seen that coming. Maybe people should incorporate that reality into their political thesis instead of always assuming the worst case scenario.
- seydor 3y ago
  for one, the EC & EP are among the top 5 spenders in political ads on facebook in most EU countries https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/report/?source=nav-header&paipv=0&eav=AfY-MLs0axwMPAYF8SSt7x8dnsQucPt6IFwMxonTpkiRIMUgoIBXc_ZiIgRCS_AeRE0&_rdr https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/report/?source=nav-head...
  - Krasnol 3y ago
    So what? What's the problem with that? In several countries, they even put up billboards next to projects they paid for.
    - seydor 3y ago
      First, what does the EU have to advertise that needs more promotion than even local politicians do? Second, this is EU taxpayer money they are spending, to american companies. Third , EU having such financial relationship with facebook is problematic, given their legal fights.
      - Krasnol 3y ago
        > First, what does the EU have to advertise that needs more promotion than even local politicians do? Many things actually since most people know not enough about what, why or how they do things. See my billboard example. > Second, this is EU taxpayer money they are spending, to american companies It's not their fault that those popular companies are from the US. What's your point? > Third , EU having such financial relationship with facebook is problematic, given their legal fights. Why?
        seydor 3y ago
        If you fail to see an issue here, then the ads clearly worked
        Krasnol 3y ago
        I haven't seen a single one of them. I don't have a Facebook account and even if I had, they seem not to run them in Germany.
ClumsyPilot 3y ago
> Massive amounts of pro EU propaganda You mean when Brexit compaign was financed by dark money, broke electoral law, they were fined wopping £50,000, the parliament has asked Zukerberg to testify and he simply refused to come to uk? Or how the failure of brexit is good pro-eu propaganda?

How about: less drama? There are things where you can't trust "the EU" (whatever this is supposed to be, the Parliament? The Commission? The countries?) and there are things where you can and absolutely should. Generalizations are propaganda, and this is what you do here.

zosima 3y ago
EU legislation has a long history of being overly complex, unnecessary and unnecessarily detailed and perfectly hostile to both EU citizens and companies. I don't see exactly what part of it you should be trusting. I'd never trust neither the commission nor the parliament. They have so many ridiculous failures under their wings, that nobody well-informed would. The best you can hope for with new legislation is that it's so vague and incomprehensible that in practice it's going to be unenforceable. But that's only so long as the judicial stays sane, which you can only hope for. In addition EU is working hard to gain control of information flows at the moment. Censoring and cooperating with censors to block information providers in EU. All of this happens very discreetly and very silently. And I'd wager 95% of citizens are unaware that their right of free speech and information about events is being curtailed to degrees that is completely incompatible with a free society. How you can even begin to trust a creation acting like this, is beyond my imagination.
- toyg 3y ago
  The EU also has a long history of raising standards in many, many areas across the continent. From worker rights to environmental rules to building codes to car manufacturing to passport controls to food quality standards, the EU pushes most members to raise their game every day. Yes, there are failures because nothing is perfect, but they pale in comparison to the massive amount of work that improves European lives every day.
  - zosima 3y ago
    All of these things could, and usually have, as well be done by national parliaments. In fact many a time national environmental legislation has been kept back, waiting for EU legislation on the subject matter. (Which can take many, many years). The main difference between a law by most national parliaments and EU legislation is that the EU legislation is usually wildly more complex, oftentimes to the extent that nobody anywhere really can understand it. E.g. take a look at the GDPR or the EU electricity regulation. You will be getting wildly different answers to many questions, depending on who you ask. And the reason is clear: The regulation is unreadable and inconsistent. On top of that, one would be thinking that EU should be painting legislation with broad clear strokes, for the national parliaments to implement the specifics. But they don't, often the EU commission goes down to a level of detail that you'd never even see in specific national legislation. I can understand how lawyers see this monster as a great. It's an infinite source of income. But for the average citizen and cooperation, the good EU legislation would have been much better, had it been implemented by national parliaments. And much of the bad legislation would not have been possible in the national parliaments, where completely obscure nonsense usually is read by at least someone, that will call it out.
    - Swenrekcah 3y ago
      >The main difference between a law by most national parliaments and EU legislation is that the EU legislation is usually wildly more complex, oftentimes to the extent that nobody anywhere really can understand it. E.g. take a look at the GDPR or the EU electricity regulation. You will be getting wildly different answers to many questions, depending on who you ask. And the reason is clear: The regulation is unreadable and inconsistent. Isn't this true of any complex law anywhere? The interpretation varies and is eventually decided upon by the courts and following that sometimes additional rectifying legislation. >On top of that, one would be thinking that EU should be painting legislation with broad clear strokes, for the national parliaments to implement the specifics. But they don't, often the EU commission goes down to a level of detail that you'd never even see in specific national legislation. I'm curious about what you mean here, do you have any specific examples? I'm from a country that would benefit immensely from EU laws in pretty much every area, but I also recognize the hazards of pushing legislative decisions too far away. But for all the criticism the EU gets on that point, it is actually much easier for individual countries to disagree and do their own thing in the EU than it is for states in the United States, it seems to me. It's not like there are "federal" EU agents running around and arresting people.
- anigbrowl 3y ago
  A federation of 27 different countries (many of which used to war with each other) with nearly as many languages is sometimes complex and unwieldy? Who could have seen that coming. Maybe people should incorporate that reality into their political thesis instead of always assuming the worst case scenario.
seydor 3y ago
for one, the EC & EP are among the top 5 spenders in political ads on facebook in most EU countries https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/report/?source=nav-header&paipv=0&eav=AfY-MLs0axwMPAYF8SSt7x8dnsQucPt6IFwMxonTpkiRIMUgoIBXc_ZiIgRCS_AeRE0&_rdr https://www.facebook.com/ads/library/report/?source=nav-head...
- Krasnol 3y ago
  So what? What's the problem with that? In several countries, they even put up billboards next to projects they paid for.
  - seydor 3y ago
    First, what does the EU have to advertise that needs more promotion than even local politicians do? Second, this is EU taxpayer money they are spending, to american companies. Third , EU having such financial relationship with facebook is problematic, given their legal fights.
    - Krasnol 3y ago
      > First, what does the EU have to advertise that needs more promotion than even local politicians do? Many things actually since most people know not enough about what, why or how they do things. See my billboard example. > Second, this is EU taxpayer money they are spending, to american companies It's not their fault that those popular companies are from the US. What's your point? > Third , EU having such financial relationship with facebook is problematic, given their legal fights. Why?
      - seydor 3y ago
        If you fail to see an issue here, then the ads clearly worked
        Krasnol 3y ago
        I haven't seen a single one of them. I don't have a Facebook account and even if I had, they seem not to run them in Germany.

ClumsyPilot 3y ago

> Massive amounts of pro EU propaganda You mean when Brexit compaign was financed by dark money, broke electoral law, they were fined wopping £50,000, the parliament has asked Zukerberg to testify and he simply refused to come to uk? Or how the failure of brexit is good pro-eu propaganda?