5 ms·

H-1Bs should be given out in salary descending order with no randomness.

by spullara 3y ago

sokoloff 3y ago
I can think of no better way to ensure that H1-B holders are concentrated in the Bay Area, NYC, and Seattle...
- jen20 3y ago
  So put a cost of living adjustment on it.
mlboss 3y ago
This does not work for non tech, non Silicon Valley employers. Non tech businesses that depend on foreign skilled labor will never be able to compete.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- paxys 3y ago
  A business depending on foreign labor while offering subpar salaries so no domestic employee wants to work for them is the perfect example of abusing the skilled visa system. If the change makes them unable to compete then great, that's a bonus.
- VirusNewbie 3y ago
  why should it?
  - nwiswell 3y ago
    The real answer? Because non-tech companies pay lobbyists, too.
- adrr 3y ago
  They should pay market rates and what stack ranking by salary does is set a market rate for H1B labor. H1B shouldn't be used to get cheaper labor based on your chances with a lottery.
- thereisnospork 3y ago
  That's the point - non tech/silicon valley have a lower demonstrable need (salary) and should be able to find indigenous talent by paying appropriately. A COL adjustment wouldn't be an unreasonable modification though.
  - jltsiren 3y ago
    Salaries reflect the ability to capture value, not need or value to the society. There are plenty of highly-paid jobs with effectively zero or even negative net contribution to the society.
    - thereisnospork 3y ago
      >Salaries reflect the ability to capture value, not need or value to the society. There are plenty of highly-paid jobs with effectively zero or even negative net contribution to the society. Politely, society disagrees with your views on what contributes (see: the high salaries).
      - jltsiren 3y ago
        There are positive-sum, zero-sum, and negative-sum games. Some people (such as scammers) make the society unambigously worse, but they often still get paid for doing their job. Then there is the question of externalities. People working in fields with positive externalities tend to be underpaid, if there are no sufficient mechanisms that allow their employers to capture the value they create. Similarly, people working in fields with negative externalities tend to be overpaid.
- bluedino 3y ago
  Lots of non-tech businesses depend on foreign skilled labor and compete just fine. Mexicans just don't do software.
Muromec 3y ago
As a holder of work permit in Europe reading about H1B is bizarre. For me to get a work permit it took company founders to write a motivational letter (tldr, we work in tech, we need this dude), put an indication of salary being above certain fixed threshold (something something above median salary, revised yearly) and it was done in a few weeks. No lottery, no quotas, I can change employers whatever amount of times I want, I didn’t have to show academic credentials or answer binary tree interview questions from border agents. Why is US so complicated for no reason? It’s not like it even makes a difference in the end, it’s just needless friction .
- xenadu02 3y ago
  The current US Immigration system wasn't designed. It accidentally came together from a patchwork of individual programs and various bills modifying the rules. There is political disagreement over what a new system should look like so there has never been enough agreement to completely overhaul the rules.
- adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
  largely lots and lots of racism.
- pandaman 3y ago
  As per [1]: "29 000 highly qualified non-EU workers received an EU Blue Card in 2021, giving them comprehensive socio-economic rights and a residence in the EU." it's unclear how many applied but if the process is as easy as you described it could not be much more, say 50K is a fair estimate? As per [2]: "USCIS announced that the agency received a total of 308,613 H-1B cap registrations, of which USCIS issued 87,500 registration selections in March 2021." If the EU system was as oversubscribed as the US it would have the same problems. 1. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?oldid=539496 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... 2. https://ogletree.com/insights-resources/blog-posts/uscis-releases-data-with-official-number-of-fy2022-h-1b-cap-registrations/ https://ogletree.com/insights-resources/blog-posts/uscis-rel...
  - Muromec 3y ago
tomohelix 3y ago
This is so self-centered it is borderline ignorance. First, people on H1B already have to prove they are being paid above the average market. They can't hire a senior engineer for 50k a year for example. Second, not all industry has high profit margins like software. Places like biotech or semiconductor can't afford 250K for a single worker, no matter how senior they are except in special circumstances. And these fields are just as critical and important as coding. In fact, one may argue that healthcare and chipmaking capacity are more critical to the country than someone writing the next iteration of Microsoft Word. Third, if H1B is given based purely on salary, then company won't bother with H1B anymore. Imagine what happen if suddenly half the company on market no longer care about having a H1B program. Some politician will start trying to abolish it all together. Xenophobia and "they took our high paying jobs" and "those snobs foreigners get paid how much while American get paid how much?" are easy to sell. Just a terrible hot take. Try to think broader than just your situation.
- photonbeam 3y ago
  No its not, its a valid way of looking at the situation.
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
  >people on H1B already have to prove they are being paid above the average market. They can't hire a senior engineer for 50k a year for example. Companies that hire H1B's often 'downrank' employees to roles they are overqualified for in order to reduce salary requirements. >Second, not all industry has high profit margins like software. Places like biotech or semiconductor can't afford 250K for a single worker, If the industry cannot afford it, perhaps they shouldn't hire H1bs? How else, other than compensation, would you decide who provides the most economic value? >Third, if H1B is given based purely on salary, then company won't bother with H1B anymore. Imagine what happen if suddenly half the company on market no longer care about having a H1B program. A country's laws exist for the benefit of it's CITIZENS. I personally believe that the US H1B program is exploitative and should be ended, and our legal immigration system should be reformed. You need a worker? They get a green card, and can go to any company they please. That worker should also be automatically eligible for citizenship after ~ 5 years of paying taxes and staying out of trouble.

H-1Bs should be given out in salary descending order with no randomness.

sokoloff 3y ago

I can think of no better way to ensure that H1-B holders are concentrated in the Bay Area, NYC, and Seattle...

jen20 3y ago
So put a cost of living adjustment on it.

mlboss 3y ago

This does not work for non tech, non Silicon Valley employers. Non tech businesses that depend on foreign skilled labor will never be able to compete.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
paxys 3y ago
A business depending on foreign labor while offering subpar salaries so no domestic employee wants to work for them is the perfect example of abusing the skilled visa system. If the change makes them unable to compete then great, that's a bonus.
VirusNewbie 3y ago
why should it?
- nwiswell 3y ago
  The real answer? Because non-tech companies pay lobbyists, too.
adrr 3y ago
They should pay market rates and what stack ranking by salary does is set a market rate for H1B labor. H1B shouldn't be used to get cheaper labor based on your chances with a lottery.
thereisnospork 3y ago
That's the point - non tech/silicon valley have a lower demonstrable need (salary) and should be able to find indigenous talent by paying appropriately. A COL adjustment wouldn't be an unreasonable modification though.
- jltsiren 3y ago
  Salaries reflect the ability to capture value, not need or value to the society. There are plenty of highly-paid jobs with effectively zero or even negative net contribution to the society.
  - thereisnospork 3y ago
    >Salaries reflect the ability to capture value, not need or value to the society. There are plenty of highly-paid jobs with effectively zero or even negative net contribution to the society. Politely, society disagrees with your views on what contributes (see: the high salaries).
    - jltsiren 3y ago
      There are positive-sum, zero-sum, and negative-sum games. Some people (such as scammers) make the society unambigously worse, but they often still get paid for doing their job. Then there is the question of externalities. People working in fields with positive externalities tend to be underpaid, if there are no sufficient mechanisms that allow their employers to capture the value they create. Similarly, people working in fields with negative externalities tend to be overpaid.
bluedino 3y ago
Lots of non-tech businesses depend on foreign skilled labor and compete just fine. Mexicans just don't do software.

Muromec 3y ago

As a holder of work permit in Europe reading about H1B is bizarre. For me to get a work permit it took company founders to write a motivational letter (tldr, we work in tech, we need this dude), put an indication of salary being above certain fixed threshold (something something above median salary, revised yearly) and it was done in a few weeks. No lottery, no quotas, I can change employers whatever amount of times I want, I didn’t have to show academic credentials or answer binary tree interview questions from border agents. Why is US so complicated for no reason? It’s not like it even makes a difference in the end, it’s just needless friction .

xenadu02 3y ago
The current US Immigration system wasn't designed. It accidentally came together from a patchwork of individual programs and various bills modifying the rules. There is political disagreement over what a new system should look like so there has never been enough agreement to completely overhaul the rules.
adgjlsfhk1 3y ago
largely lots and lots of racism.
pandaman 3y ago
As per [1]: "29 000 highly qualified non-EU workers received an EU Blue Card in 2021, giving them comprehensive socio-economic rights and a residence in the EU." it's unclear how many applied but if the process is as easy as you described it could not be much more, say 50K is a fair estimate? As per [2]: "USCIS announced that the agency received a total of 308,613 H-1B cap registrations, of which USCIS issued 87,500 registration selections in March 2021." If the EU system was as oversubscribed as the US it would have the same problems. 1. https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?oldid=539496 https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... 2. https://ogletree.com/insights-resources/blog-posts/uscis-releases-data-with-official-number-of-fy2022-h-1b-cap-registrations/ https://ogletree.com/insights-resources/blog-posts/uscis-rel...
- Muromec 3y ago

tomohelix 3y ago

This is so self-centered it is borderline ignorance. First, people on H1B already have to prove they are being paid above the average market. They can't hire a senior engineer for 50k a year for example. Second, not all industry has high profit margins like software. Places like biotech or semiconductor can't afford 250K for a single worker, no matter how senior they are except in special circumstances. And these fields are just as critical and important as coding. In fact, one may argue that healthcare and chipmaking capacity are more critical to the country than someone writing the next iteration of Microsoft Word. Third, if H1B is given based purely on salary, then company won't bother with H1B anymore. Imagine what happen if suddenly half the company on market no longer care about having a H1B program. Some politician will start trying to abolish it all together. Xenophobia and "they took our high paying jobs" and "those snobs foreigners get paid how much while American get paid how much?" are easy to sell. Just a terrible hot take. Try to think broader than just your situation.

photonbeam 3y ago
No its not, its a valid way of looking at the situation.
wing-_-nuts 3y ago
>people on H1B already have to prove they are being paid above the average market. They can't hire a senior engineer for 50k a year for example. Companies that hire H1B's often 'downrank' employees to roles they are overqualified for in order to reduce salary requirements. >Second, not all industry has high profit margins like software. Places like biotech or semiconductor can't afford 250K for a single worker, If the industry cannot afford it, perhaps they shouldn't hire H1bs? How else, other than compensation, would you decide who provides the most economic value? >Third, if H1B is given based purely on salary, then company won't bother with H1B anymore. Imagine what happen if suddenly half the company on market no longer care about having a H1B program. A country's laws exist for the benefit of it's CITIZENS. I personally believe that the US H1B program is exploitative and should be ended, and our legal immigration system should be reformed. You need a worker? They get a green card, and can go to any company they please. That worker should also be automatically eligible for citizenship after ~ 5 years of paying taxes and staying out of trouble.