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I have been praising Bandcamp for years. How it's a great site, how I love buying music there instead of streaming. But what I never did? Read their blog or us

I have been praising Bandcamp for years. How it's a great site, how I love buying music there instead of streaming. But what I never did? Read their blog or used any of their social features. So as long as Songtrader keeps paying artists, and keeps offering downloads while letting me stream the music for free until I can decide if I want to buy it or not, I'll be fine with them.

Pxtl 3y ago
Okay but this layoff process didn't look like a strategic move where they cut the excess services from bandcamp. It sounds like it was an across-the-board 50% slash. Half the blog staff is still around.
theandrewbailey 3y ago
Same. I always find music somewhere else like Youtube or Soundcloud, and find the link to Bandcamp from there.
zanellato19 3y ago
"They are not ruining for me _specifically_ so this article is moot" is not a great point
- peruvian 3y ago
  Classic HN comment though - adds nothing to the discussion outside of "I want to smugly have my thoughts out there". Of course, upvoted to the top.
  - yamazakiwi 3y ago
    It's not weird to share opinions on a forum, I don't read any smugness in their tone.
    - permo-w 3y ago
      smug is pretty much the baseline on HN
      - citruscomputing 3y ago
        I'm reminded of https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/ https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/ (both for the initial reference, and for what the text actually says)
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    I wanted to highlight what actually is worthwhile about BC for what I assume are still quite a few people. But you are right, your comment really improved the discussion.
  - kagakuninja 3y ago
    It actually echoes my feelings as both a musician and consumer. Just give me the music, I'll find it on my own through other channels. To put it another way, there are plenty of ways to find music, what underground musicians need is a an easy to use tool to put their music online, as we are not big enough for Spotify.
  - _mj0m 3y ago
    It's more realistic than smug. I run a small net-label on bandcamp and don't really care about the culture of Bandcamp outside of it being a platform we can easily slap albums on and share through other channels. I just need the site to work and exist while passing us our percentage for any sales that come through. Bandcamp has lasted because they haven't let the place go to shit like their competition and they've been reliable enough to stay online consistently. I don't need social tie ins, and I don't want to message my listener base about anything. The spam emails I get from labels trying to be social go directly into the trash and usually make me unfollow them (or disable notifications)
- yamazakiwi 3y ago
  The poster's intention is to fish for people that feel similarly and drive discussion, not flex that they are unaffected.
  - zanellato19 3y ago
    That wasn't at all what I gathered from the comment.
    - yamazakiwi 3y ago
      That is unfortunate
- Semaphor 3y ago
  I didn't say the article is moot. What I wanted to offer was a counterpoint because in the last few days ago I've been reading is how they are killing everything that made BC BC. And it's simply not like that for all of us.
  - fzeroracer 3y ago
    Your comment is also bog standard every time there's a service or something being cut down. Like the same with Twitter when they removed headlines, I saw people saying 'well I never read headlines in the first place so it didn't matter'. It's a semi-smug affirmation that you don't care which, great. There's others that do, especially when the trajectory for changes like these is for a platform to get worse, not better.
    - mardifoufs 3y ago
      I'd agree but this article, so the subject of this whole thread, is trying to argue that you should care and that this is important. Isn't it fair for the comments to discuss why they disagree with that? I agree that it's a pattern that happens a lot on unrelated threads, and it sucks, but this one in particular is an exception since the entire OP is about trying to make us care.
      - fzeroracer 3y ago
        See, you're taking the wrong message from the article entirely, and I suspect so was the OP. The point of the article isn't to make you care about Bandcamp in particular, though it's clear the author does. It's to point out the fact that if there is something you DO care about, how acquisitions and corporate plays can and will destroy it. You could replace Bandcamp with Steam, or HN or any other entity. That's the point. Not the particulars of Bandcamp itself. People here get so lost in the weeds and don't actually read what the message of the article is.
        mardifoufs 3y ago
        Actually yeah on second thoughts you are right. I don't agree with the article at all but I see how the comment you replied to was pretty myopic in this context
SleepilyLimping 3y ago
I think that journalists (or well, "company-owned content teams") are very quick to overestimate the spirituality and necessity of their work. They might think that their work is necessary and invaluable, but it doesn't mean that the company or their users will. Like you're saying, I have a hard time caring about Bandcamp losing full-time writers when they weren't the main attraction at all.
- Hoasi 3y ago
  The jury is still out on that. Bandcamp's branding effort is hard to measure. Even if we didn't read their blog posts or listen to their radio podcasts, there is something beautiful in that effort. And I agree that written critique doesn't do much for music or art, for that matter. Even though you can't quantify it, I wouldn't dismiss Bandcamp branding effort around music. You can't strip music of everything aside from sounds. Bandcamp's rich illustrations managed to set a musical mood, for example. Image is important. Controversies, interviews, politics, and even ridiculousness are part of the culture regardless of whether one decides to engage.
croes 3y ago
Regardless of how they treat their employees?
- Podgajski 3y ago
  Why are you letting your compassion get in the way of your pleasure?
  - icandoit 3y ago
    People are social animals. Besides, wireheading will soon be possible. Best to re-evaluate your pleasure from time-to-time, while you can.
- unfamiliar 3y ago
  Yes. That’s a problem to sort out between the employees and the company, it has nothing do to with users or customers. As a user I’m not going to pretend I know any of the relevant context to engage in activism on behalf of anyone.
  - croes 3y ago
    So if a company uses slave workers, child labor, sweatshops it's non of the customers business? Isn't it part of the market mechanisms that customers punish bad behavior?
    - broken-kebab 3y ago
      Do you claim songtradr uses slave, or child labor?
      - croes 3y ago
        I just turned up my example to make my point. If we don't care about the employees, who does? If we care only under certain circumstances, where is the limit? Union busting, unpaid overtime, forced labor?
dmansen 3y ago
> So as long as Songtrader keeps paying artists Fair enough, but I wouldn't hold my breath!
erickhill 3y ago
100%. I've been buying music on Bandcamp regularly for a decade. It's where I discovered and became addicted to the synthwave scene. Frankly, there was no other place I could easily discover this kind of niche music over the years and support it the way I could on Bandcamp. I'm also an Album Guy (dinosaur, I know). But I never cared about or wanted anything other than 1) my music I bought and 2) their not great but good enough search. That's it! I've worked for publishers most of my career, so I know what half those employees are going through is painful. It has happened to me before, too. But as a customer of the site, I was completely and blissfully oblivious to any editorial staff. My process: Load bandcamp.com Immediately click on the Heart icon, where all my purchases live. Listen. This was true on the app, too. I found their homepage utterly useless. None of the artists I'm into ever appeared there. Not cool enough, I'm sure. Long live bandcamp.
rob74 3y ago
It's a bit hard for me to give Songtradr the benefit of the doubt when they start off by kicking out half of the employees, including, by some very weird coincidence, the whole union bargaining team. Kind of supports the argument of the article that all they care about is maximizing profit, which doesn't bode well for artists or users, even if they're not (yet) affected...
pera 3y ago
The blog was truly fantastic, discovered several great bands and a few obscure genres. I didn't use the social feature either but my guess is that it was good for the musicians.

Pxtl 3y ago

Okay but this layoff process didn't look like a strategic move where they cut the excess services from bandcamp. It sounds like it was an across-the-board 50% slash. Half the blog staff is still around.

theandrewbailey 3y ago

Same. I always find music somewhere else like Youtube or Soundcloud, and find the link to Bandcamp from there.

zanellato19 3y ago

"They are not ruining for me _specifically_ so this article is moot" is not a great point

peruvian 3y ago
Classic HN comment though - adds nothing to the discussion outside of "I want to smugly have my thoughts out there". Of course, upvoted to the top.
- yamazakiwi 3y ago
  It's not weird to share opinions on a forum, I don't read any smugness in their tone.
  - permo-w 3y ago
    smug is pretty much the baseline on HN
    - citruscomputing 3y ago
      I'm reminded of https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/ https://fs.blog/david-foster-wallace-this-is-water/ (both for the initial reference, and for what the text actually says)
- Semaphor 3y ago
  I wanted to highlight what actually is worthwhile about BC for what I assume are still quite a few people. But you are right, your comment really improved the discussion.
- kagakuninja 3y ago
  It actually echoes my feelings as both a musician and consumer. Just give me the music, I'll find it on my own through other channels. To put it another way, there are plenty of ways to find music, what underground musicians need is a an easy to use tool to put their music online, as we are not big enough for Spotify.
- _mj0m 3y ago
  It's more realistic than smug. I run a small net-label on bandcamp and don't really care about the culture of Bandcamp outside of it being a platform we can easily slap albums on and share through other channels. I just need the site to work and exist while passing us our percentage for any sales that come through. Bandcamp has lasted because they haven't let the place go to shit like their competition and they've been reliable enough to stay online consistently. I don't need social tie ins, and I don't want to message my listener base about anything. The spam emails I get from labels trying to be social go directly into the trash and usually make me unfollow them (or disable notifications)
yamazakiwi 3y ago
The poster's intention is to fish for people that feel similarly and drive discussion, not flex that they are unaffected.
- zanellato19 3y ago
  That wasn't at all what I gathered from the comment.
  - yamazakiwi 3y ago
    That is unfortunate
Semaphor 3y ago
I didn't say the article is moot. What I wanted to offer was a counterpoint because in the last few days ago I've been reading is how they are killing everything that made BC BC. And it's simply not like that for all of us.
- fzeroracer 3y ago
  Your comment is also bog standard every time there's a service or something being cut down. Like the same with Twitter when they removed headlines, I saw people saying 'well I never read headlines in the first place so it didn't matter'. It's a semi-smug affirmation that you don't care which, great. There's others that do, especially when the trajectory for changes like these is for a platform to get worse, not better.
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    I'd agree but this article, so the subject of this whole thread, is trying to argue that you should care and that this is important. Isn't it fair for the comments to discuss why they disagree with that? I agree that it's a pattern that happens a lot on unrelated threads, and it sucks, but this one in particular is an exception since the entire OP is about trying to make us care.
    - fzeroracer 3y ago
      See, you're taking the wrong message from the article entirely, and I suspect so was the OP. The point of the article isn't to make you care about Bandcamp in particular, though it's clear the author does. It's to point out the fact that if there is something you DO care about, how acquisitions and corporate plays can and will destroy it. You could replace Bandcamp with Steam, or HN or any other entity. That's the point. Not the particulars of Bandcamp itself. People here get so lost in the weeds and don't actually read what the message of the article is.
      - mardifoufs 3y ago
        Actually yeah on second thoughts you are right. I don't agree with the article at all but I see how the comment you replied to was pretty myopic in this context

SleepilyLimping 3y ago

I think that journalists (or well, "company-owned content teams") are very quick to overestimate the spirituality and necessity of their work. They might think that their work is necessary and invaluable, but it doesn't mean that the company or their users will. Like you're saying, I have a hard time caring about Bandcamp losing full-time writers when they weren't the main attraction at all.

Hoasi 3y ago
The jury is still out on that. Bandcamp's branding effort is hard to measure. Even if we didn't read their blog posts or listen to their radio podcasts, there is something beautiful in that effort. And I agree that written critique doesn't do much for music or art, for that matter. Even though you can't quantify it, I wouldn't dismiss Bandcamp branding effort around music. You can't strip music of everything aside from sounds. Bandcamp's rich illustrations managed to set a musical mood, for example. Image is important. Controversies, interviews, politics, and even ridiculousness are part of the culture regardless of whether one decides to engage.

croes 3y ago

Regardless of how they treat their employees?

Podgajski 3y ago
Why are you letting your compassion get in the way of your pleasure?
- icandoit 3y ago
  People are social animals. Besides, wireheading will soon be possible. Best to re-evaluate your pleasure from time-to-time, while you can.
unfamiliar 3y ago
Yes. That’s a problem to sort out between the employees and the company, it has nothing do to with users or customers. As a user I’m not going to pretend I know any of the relevant context to engage in activism on behalf of anyone.
- croes 3y ago
  So if a company uses slave workers, child labor, sweatshops it's non of the customers business? Isn't it part of the market mechanisms that customers punish bad behavior?
  - broken-kebab 3y ago
    Do you claim songtradr uses slave, or child labor?
    - croes 3y ago
      I just turned up my example to make my point. If we don't care about the employees, who does? If we care only under certain circumstances, where is the limit? Union busting, unpaid overtime, forced labor?

dmansen 3y ago

> So as long as Songtrader keeps paying artists Fair enough, but I wouldn't hold my breath!

erickhill 3y ago

100%. I've been buying music on Bandcamp regularly for a decade. It's where I discovered and became addicted to the synthwave scene. Frankly, there was no other place I could easily discover this kind of niche music over the years and support it the way I could on Bandcamp. I'm also an Album Guy (dinosaur, I know). But I never cared about or wanted anything other than 1) my music I bought and 2) their not great but good enough search. That's it! I've worked for publishers most of my career, so I know what half those employees are going through is painful. It has happened to me before, too. But as a customer of the site, I was completely and blissfully oblivious to any editorial staff. My process: Load bandcamp.com Immediately click on the Heart icon, where all my purchases live. Listen. This was true on the app, too. I found their homepage utterly useless. None of the artists I'm into ever appeared there. Not cool enough, I'm sure. Long live bandcamp.

rob74 3y ago

It's a bit hard for me to give Songtradr the benefit of the doubt when they start off by kicking out half of the employees, including, by some very weird coincidence, the whole union bargaining team. Kind of supports the argument of the article that all they care about is maximizing profit, which doesn't bode well for artists or users, even if they're not (yet) affected...

pera 3y ago

The blog was truly fantastic, discovered several great bands and a few obscure genres. I didn't use the social feature either but my guess is that it was good for the musicians.