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> a retired 73-year-old grandmother among the 232,000 investors who were victims of the alleged fraud. Why/how did she come to that decision is my only questi

by n_ary 3y ago

> a retired 73-year-old grandmother among the 232,000 investors who were victims of the alleged fraud. Why/how did she come to that decision is my only question from this whole article. Perhaps I am too dumb to understand why people invest into shaky things(cryptocurrencies, MLM scams and what nots) or perhaps people just allow others to control their assets.

AlexandrB 3y ago
Perhaps she was swayed by Matt Damon.
- jjtheblunt 3y ago
  How are those spokespeople not liable for fraud?
  - tptacek 3y ago
    It depends on their relationship with the fraudulent enterprise. In the most boring fact pattern, Matt Damon is no different legally from the Kinkos branch that runs off investor one-sheets; he's just a vendor providing a service. What tips you into potential liability is actual knowledge of fraudulent conduct (or of recklessness or negligence giving rise to that outcome). Where spokespeople have deep business relationships with their clients --- as is the often the case with Ryan Reynolds --- they're potentially reachable by plaintiffs. So far as I know, Reynolds hasn't sponsored anything particularly shady, though.
tombert 3y ago
In a bit of fairness, I kind of blame the "investing media". If you watched CNBC from ~2019 until about 2022, they were listing $BTC like it was any other ticker on the stock market. I cannot speak for this grandmother, but I cannot blame someone who doesn't really understand what cryptocurrency is for just assuming it's "some techy version of a stock", especially as more traditional brokers like Venmo and CashApp and PayPal start handling crypto as well.
rchaud 3y ago
Most likely a younger family member who had made some quick gains and offered to invest part or her savings as well.
mrguyorama 3y ago
It's called "Low financial and social literacy" There are lots of people who see a website say "You will make free money" and their brain just skips over the part where you normally would go "that doesn't make any damn sense". They are usually the same people who spread rumors as "I know a guy who knows a guy who definitely knows a guy at a school where they had a litterbox for furry kids". It's no different to how some people just REALLY REALLY suck at basic arithmetic, or others can read the same page of a book ten times and struggle to pick out what happened. We ALL have some semblance of this. We are ALL fallible bags of chemistry following really dumb patterns that evolved around surviving the wilderness, where being "correct" was not nearly as important as surviving until tomorrow. It's why I just don't understand the willingness to let people suffer "because why should I help them". We need strong regulations, strong consumer protections, strong medical systems, and strong education systems because being born really really freaking stupid should doom you to a bad life.
deleted 3y ago
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LapsangGuzzler 3y ago
Echo chambers are very, very real and it’s easy to get caught up when everyone around you is drinking the kool-aid. I moved to a new city a couple years ago and met up with some other devs as a way to make new friends. There were 4 or 5 of us going out for beers and the discussion inevitably turned to crypto. I’ve been a skeptic for many years and when asked about my crypto holdings, I politely said that I wasn’t invested or interested. One guy in particular kept telling me that I was going to get left behind and that I really needed to buy in before it was too late. I told him that I didn’t trust the market and he went on about how corrupt the Fed is. He was really awkward, and at times, emotional about it. Needless to say, friends were not made that night and I’m glad that the peer pressure aspect doesn’t bother me because a lot of people would cave in that situation.

by n_ary 3y ago

AlexandrB 3y ago

Perhaps she was swayed by Matt Damon.

jjtheblunt 3y ago
How are those spokespeople not liable for fraud?
- tptacek 3y ago
  It depends on their relationship with the fraudulent enterprise. In the most boring fact pattern, Matt Damon is no different legally from the Kinkos branch that runs off investor one-sheets; he's just a vendor providing a service. What tips you into potential liability is actual knowledge of fraudulent conduct (or of recklessness or negligence giving rise to that outcome). Where spokespeople have deep business relationships with their clients --- as is the often the case with Ryan Reynolds --- they're potentially reachable by plaintiffs. So far as I know, Reynolds hasn't sponsored anything particularly shady, though.

tombert 3y ago

In a bit of fairness, I kind of blame the "investing media". If you watched CNBC from ~2019 until about 2022, they were listing $BTC like it was any other ticker on the stock market. I cannot speak for this grandmother, but I cannot blame someone who doesn't really understand what cryptocurrency is for just assuming it's "some techy version of a stock", especially as more traditional brokers like Venmo and CashApp and PayPal start handling crypto as well.

rchaud 3y ago

Most likely a younger family member who had made some quick gains and offered to invest part or her savings as well.

mrguyorama 3y ago

It's called "Low financial and social literacy" There are lots of people who see a website say "You will make free money" and their brain just skips over the part where you normally would go "that doesn't make any damn sense". They are usually the same people who spread rumors as "I know a guy who knows a guy who definitely knows a guy at a school where they had a litterbox for furry kids". It's no different to how some people just REALLY REALLY suck at basic arithmetic, or others can read the same page of a book ten times and struggle to pick out what happened. We ALL have some semblance of this. We are ALL fallible bags of chemistry following really dumb patterns that evolved around surviving the wilderness, where being "correct" was not nearly as important as surviving until tomorrow. It's why I just don't understand the willingness to let people suffer "because why should I help them". We need strong regulations, strong consumer protections, strong medical systems, and strong education systems because being born really really freaking stupid should doom you to a bad life.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

LapsangGuzzler 3y ago

Echo chambers are very, very real and it’s easy to get caught up when everyone around you is drinking the kool-aid. I moved to a new city a couple years ago and met up with some other devs as a way to make new friends. There were 4 or 5 of us going out for beers and the discussion inevitably turned to crypto. I’ve been a skeptic for many years and when asked about my crypto holdings, I politely said that I wasn’t invested or interested. One guy in particular kept telling me that I was going to get left behind and that I really needed to buy in before it was too late. I told him that I didn’t trust the market and he went on about how corrupt the Fed is. He was really awkward, and at times, emotional about it. Needless to say, friends were not made that night and I’m glad that the peer pressure aspect doesn’t bother me because a lot of people would cave in that situation.