4 ms·

Do you have a few favorites in this genre?

laidoffamazon 3y ago
Not OP, but I do in the form of the original Deus Ex (not to be confused with it's sequels, which are pale imitations with the veneer of being in the same universe). This particular clip is what convinced me to get into the game (potential spoiler) [0]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT7sjoH8Sqc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT7sjoH8Sqc
- vorpalhex 3y ago
  A gentle disagreement here, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, the latest one though a few years old dramatically harkens back in terms of level design. Almost all the areas have Nakatomi spaces but it is entirely possible to never use them. Likewise one can use them almost exclusively. Unlike Human Rebolution where these spaces are occasional treats sprinkled out by the devs, they are more properly "worked in" in Mankind Divided.
  - laidoffamazon 3y ago
    You're right, actually. When I first played through MD I did it very linearly, only later did I realize that it was far more open than I originally expected (Because Human Revolution was pretty limited in comparison). My point for it being a shallow imitation should be reserved only for the plot and themes of the original game, which are far more subversive and interesting than the ones in MD or HR. But I do agree, gameplay wise Mankind Divided is very well done and does fit the Nakatomi Space paradigm.
- caskstrength 3y ago
  and don't forget to make original Deus Ex even better with GMDX[0] [0]: https://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx https://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx
  - Night_Thastus 3y ago
    I wouldn't play with something like that for a first playthrough though. Just play vanilla for a first time around. Deus Ex lends itself well to replayability so I'd get it modded at that point.
riffruff24 3y ago
There aren't a lot of them these days. Hitman probably the only one still going strong. I would recommend Streets of Rogue from the indie sphere. It doesn't have vents you can crawl through but you can poison the ventilation system, bribe the police, hack security robots, hire people as bodyguard or to cause a ruckus. Surprisng amount of options for a top down roguelike.
- skeaker 3y ago
  I've just vouched your comment. Not sure why it was removed, because you're right, games that are primarily immersive sims aren't being made as much by AAA studios now. Some mechanics are integrated into open world games to varying degrees (you could argue that BotW/TotK take so much inspiration from them that they might count, but to many people a replayable mission-based format is an essential part that is missing in them). There are some indies in this space but they're rare since the concept is difficult to develop around in the first place, given how you have to account for so many different edge cases and routes that the player can take.
  - ascagnel_ 3y ago
    Immersive sims have always been something of a niche genre, because they tend to have a negative difficulty curve: the player is very weak and lacks powers at the start, but becomes more resilient and more capable as the game goes on, often at a much sharper curve the game's difficulty. The result is that new players tend to be turned off and give up relatively quickly.
- polytely 3y ago
  a new one coming up is Gloomwood, heavily inspired by the Thief franchise
spuz 3y ago
The article very much reminded me of Rainbow Six Siege whose defining feature is probably the destructible environment. You can shoot or blow a path through walls floors and ceilings to reach the hostages / bad guys you need to get to. It very much changes the dynamics during play because almost nowhere is safe. To balance things, defenders have the ability to erect a limited number of metal barriers but the end result is that every game feels different and creativity is very much rewarded.
belugacat 3y ago
The new Hitman games are the best recent example in that category, IMO. Sadly the final goal still ends up being killing people. There are few games that fall truly in that genre, which is a shame as (to me at least) it’s the video game genre that is most interesting from an “interactive medium” pov. Arkane games (Dishonored, Deathloop) have some segments that get close, but at their core the games still have a few privileged paths (and are about killing people). One fun indie game that uses a voxel engine effectively for open ended gameplay is Teardown (and it’s not about killing people!). The maps are quite small though. It’ll be exciting in a decade or so when we can run such engines at much higher dimensions.
dmoy 3y ago
The Thief series is typically pretty open ended in how you complete things. Especially the third one iirc. The least old one is 9 years old though, and thief 3 is like 20 years old.
- Night_Thastus 3y ago
  Strange to hear you say that about Thief 3 or Thief 2014. Most people hate those with a passion, and only recommend Thief 1 + 2.
  - hypertexthero 3y ago
    I loved Thief and Thief 3. Never played 2 but always hear it is amazing.
  - dmoy 3y ago
    Huh I always felt 2+3 were good, 1 was just a weird hack&slash, and honestly never played 4 lol
    - Night_Thastus 3y ago
      Thief 1 is not a hack+slash. You shouldn't be engaging in combat at all, you should be avoiding it.
      - dmoy 3y ago
        Right but you could, and it didn't really penalize you for it compared to later games, whereas my recollection of 3 is that you get near instagibbed by everything, so it forced a stealth gameplay loop
Night_Thastus 3y ago
Ones I've played and loved: Deus Ex, Thief 1+2, Dishonored 1/2/Death of the Outsider, Prey 2017, Bioshock Ones I've heard great things about: System Shock 2, Arx Fatalis, Stalker

Not OP, but I do in the form of the original Deus Ex (not to be confused with it's sequels, which are pale imitations with the veneer of being in the same universe). This particular clip is what convinced me to get into the game (potential spoiler) [0]. [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT7sjoH8Sqc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT7sjoH8Sqc

vorpalhex 3y ago
A gentle disagreement here, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, the latest one though a few years old dramatically harkens back in terms of level design. Almost all the areas have Nakatomi spaces but it is entirely possible to never use them. Likewise one can use them almost exclusively. Unlike Human Rebolution where these spaces are occasional treats sprinkled out by the devs, they are more properly "worked in" in Mankind Divided.
- laidoffamazon 3y ago
  You're right, actually. When I first played through MD I did it very linearly, only later did I realize that it was far more open than I originally expected (Because Human Revolution was pretty limited in comparison). My point for it being a shallow imitation should be reserved only for the plot and themes of the original game, which are far more subversive and interesting than the ones in MD or HR. But I do agree, gameplay wise Mankind Divided is very well done and does fit the Nakatomi Space paradigm.
caskstrength 3y ago
and don't forget to make original Deus Ex even better with GMDX[0] [0]: https://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx https://www.moddb.com/mods/gmdx
- Night_Thastus 3y ago
  I wouldn't play with something like that for a first playthrough though. Just play vanilla for a first time around. Deus Ex lends itself well to replayability so I'd get it modded at that point.

riffruff24 3y ago

There aren't a lot of them these days. Hitman probably the only one still going strong. I would recommend Streets of Rogue from the indie sphere. It doesn't have vents you can crawl through but you can poison the ventilation system, bribe the police, hack security robots, hire people as bodyguard or to cause a ruckus. Surprisng amount of options for a top down roguelike.

skeaker 3y ago
I've just vouched your comment. Not sure why it was removed, because you're right, games that are primarily immersive sims aren't being made as much by AAA studios now. Some mechanics are integrated into open world games to varying degrees (you could argue that BotW/TotK take so much inspiration from them that they might count, but to many people a replayable mission-based format is an essential part that is missing in them). There are some indies in this space but they're rare since the concept is difficult to develop around in the first place, given how you have to account for so many different edge cases and routes that the player can take.
- ascagnel_ 3y ago
  Immersive sims have always been something of a niche genre, because they tend to have a negative difficulty curve: the player is very weak and lacks powers at the start, but becomes more resilient and more capable as the game goes on, often at a much sharper curve the game's difficulty. The result is that new players tend to be turned off and give up relatively quickly.
polytely 3y ago
a new one coming up is Gloomwood, heavily inspired by the Thief franchise

spuz 3y ago

The article very much reminded me of Rainbow Six Siege whose defining feature is probably the destructible environment. You can shoot or blow a path through walls floors and ceilings to reach the hostages / bad guys you need to get to. It very much changes the dynamics during play because almost nowhere is safe. To balance things, defenders have the ability to erect a limited number of metal barriers but the end result is that every game feels different and creativity is very much rewarded.

belugacat 3y ago

The new Hitman games are the best recent example in that category, IMO. Sadly the final goal still ends up being killing people. There are few games that fall truly in that genre, which is a shame as (to me at least) it’s the video game genre that is most interesting from an “interactive medium” pov. Arkane games (Dishonored, Deathloop) have some segments that get close, but at their core the games still have a few privileged paths (and are about killing people). One fun indie game that uses a voxel engine effectively for open ended gameplay is Teardown (and it’s not about killing people!). The maps are quite small though. It’ll be exciting in a decade or so when we can run such engines at much higher dimensions.

dmoy 3y ago

The Thief series is typically pretty open ended in how you complete things. Especially the third one iirc. The least old one is 9 years old though, and thief 3 is like 20 years old.

Night_Thastus 3y ago
Strange to hear you say that about Thief 3 or Thief 2014. Most people hate those with a passion, and only recommend Thief 1 + 2.
- hypertexthero 3y ago
  I loved Thief and Thief 3. Never played 2 but always hear it is amazing.
- dmoy 3y ago
  Huh I always felt 2+3 were good, 1 was just a weird hack&slash, and honestly never played 4 lol
  - Night_Thastus 3y ago
    Thief 1 is not a hack+slash. You shouldn't be engaging in combat at all, you should be avoiding it.
    - dmoy 3y ago
      Right but you could, and it didn't really penalize you for it compared to later games, whereas my recollection of 3 is that you get near instagibbed by everything, so it forced a stealth gameplay loop

Night_Thastus 3y ago

Ones I've played and loved: Deus Ex, Thief 1+2, Dishonored 1/2/Death of the Outsider, Prey 2017, Bioshock Ones I've heard great things about: System Shock 2, Arx Fatalis, Stalker