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You can have bad foreign actors and have bad local actors, both can be true at the same time. My concern is that we (US) aren't doing enough to seek peace as th

You can have bad foreign actors and have bad local actors, both can be true at the same time. My concern is that we (US) aren't doing enough to seek peace as the world leader with clout and acting not too different than the other jerks. Over a hundred thousand people, mostly young with full lives ahead of them, have reportedly died in the Ukraine war so far...for what? So we can stick it to Putin? Listen to Lindsey Graham who now wants to have a war with pretty much the entire world or to the Biden administration that is now seeking $100 billion, $60 billion of which is for Ukraine.

65a 3y ago
I'm pretty sure Russia started that by invading in 2014 and then 2022. Ending wars by giving invaders other sovereign countries doesn't work so well...it certainly didn't serve peace last time.
- theironhammer 3y ago
  I used to think like you but I realized I was wrong. USA and Ukraine are not innocent here at all. What would the USAs response be if China did with Canada what the USA has done in Ukraine? How would the US govt respond to Chinese machinations to make Canada a close ally of China? To invite Canada into a Military Pact with China similar to NATO? To announce that Canada could join a trade block like the EU with China etc? How do you think the USA would respond to Chinese military advisors operating in Canada and Chinese officials going to Canada and making public statements the way Viktoria Nuland did? Ukraine is not what u think it is. It should've been divided along the Dnieper River into two different countries after the Soviet collapse. And yes Crimea belongs to Russia. USA deliberately poked Russia to start this war. The goal of the USA is to whittle down the strength of the Russian military. Can't have a regional power in Europe. Only the USA can have a Monroe Doctrine. Nobody else.
  - 65a 3y ago
    You were swayed by a hypothetical and a 19th century doctrine? I'm sorry to hear that, but it doesn't absolve Russia of responsibility for invading a sovereign country.
mcphage 3y ago
> My concern is that we (US) aren't doing enough to seek peace I don't think Russia is interested in peace, given that they can already achieve it unilaterally. And if one party doesn't want peace, I don't know what the US can do in this situation.
quickthrowman 3y ago
> Over a hundred thousand people, mostly young with full lives ahead of them, have reportedly died in the Ukraine war so far...for what? Appeasement is a bad strategy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement
sheepshear 3y ago
The Russian government exists to serve the oligarchs of natural resource extraction. There is nothing you can give them that will make them lose interest in acquiring more natural resources. You can deter them by showing strength, and you can delay them by depleting their resources. The US is doing both of those things. Rewarding their actions can delay them, but at the cost of strengthening and replenishing them, which creates bigger future problems.
loco5niner 3y ago
Putin started killing and won't stop until someone stops him. Are you blaming the deaths on fighting back?
taylodl 3y ago
Russia invaded Ukraine, a sovereign nation, on their own initiative. What does seeking peace in such a scenario even look like? The United States and NATO have refrained from engaging in direct military conflict with Russia, and instead have opted to provide aid to the Ukraine and apply economic sanctions to Russia. I think that's a reasonable approach as compared to all-out war.
jemmyw 3y ago
The US and UK could have cited the Budapest Memorandum and told Russia publically they would defend Ukraine with air support before the invasion happened. Neither side in this situation want peace. The Ukrainians want their country back and don't want to be ruled from Russia. They were going to fight whatever happened and if Russia had quickly established control we would see civil unrest. Russia isn't interested in peace their whole leadership is invested in this war. We know that the US tried to settle things before it started and Russia was incoherent. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66509180 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66509180
_kbh_ 3y ago
> My concern is that we (US) aren't doing enough to seek peace as the world leader with clout and acting not too different than the other jerks. How do you have peace with a country that doesn't abide by the peace agreements it signs when it's not convenient for them?.

65a 3y ago

I'm pretty sure Russia started that by invading in 2014 and then 2022. Ending wars by giving invaders other sovereign countries doesn't work so well...it certainly didn't serve peace last time.

theironhammer 3y ago
I used to think like you but I realized I was wrong. USA and Ukraine are not innocent here at all. What would the USAs response be if China did with Canada what the USA has done in Ukraine? How would the US govt respond to Chinese machinations to make Canada a close ally of China? To invite Canada into a Military Pact with China similar to NATO? To announce that Canada could join a trade block like the EU with China etc? How do you think the USA would respond to Chinese military advisors operating in Canada and Chinese officials going to Canada and making public statements the way Viktoria Nuland did? Ukraine is not what u think it is. It should've been divided along the Dnieper River into two different countries after the Soviet collapse. And yes Crimea belongs to Russia. USA deliberately poked Russia to start this war. The goal of the USA is to whittle down the strength of the Russian military. Can't have a regional power in Europe. Only the USA can have a Monroe Doctrine. Nobody else.
- 65a 3y ago
  You were swayed by a hypothetical and a 19th century doctrine? I'm sorry to hear that, but it doesn't absolve Russia of responsibility for invading a sovereign country.

mcphage 3y ago

> My concern is that we (US) aren't doing enough to seek peace I don't think Russia is interested in peace, given that they can already achieve it unilaterally. And if one party doesn't want peace, I don't know what the US can do in this situation.

quickthrowman 3y ago

> Over a hundred thousand people, mostly young with full lives ahead of them, have reportedly died in the Ukraine war so far...for what? Appeasement is a bad strategy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement

sheepshear 3y ago

The Russian government exists to serve the oligarchs of natural resource extraction. There is nothing you can give them that will make them lose interest in acquiring more natural resources. You can deter them by showing strength, and you can delay them by depleting their resources. The US is doing both of those things. Rewarding their actions can delay them, but at the cost of strengthening and replenishing them, which creates bigger future problems.

loco5niner 3y ago

Putin started killing and won't stop until someone stops him. Are you blaming the deaths on fighting back?

taylodl 3y ago

Russia invaded Ukraine, a sovereign nation, on their own initiative. What does seeking peace in such a scenario even look like? The United States and NATO have refrained from engaging in direct military conflict with Russia, and instead have opted to provide aid to the Ukraine and apply economic sanctions to Russia. I think that's a reasonable approach as compared to all-out war.

jemmyw 3y ago

The US and UK could have cited the Budapest Memorandum and told Russia publically they would defend Ukraine with air support before the invasion happened. Neither side in this situation want peace. The Ukrainians want their country back and don't want to be ruled from Russia. They were going to fight whatever happened and if Russia had quickly established control we would see civil unrest. Russia isn't interested in peace their whole leadership is invested in this war. We know that the US tried to settle things before it started and Russia was incoherent. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66509180 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66509180

_kbh_ 3y ago

> My concern is that we (US) aren't doing enough to seek peace as the world leader with clout and acting not too different than the other jerks. How do you have peace with a country that doesn't abide by the peace agreements it signs when it's not convenient for them?.