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I try to limit my intake of news, and so most of the story I only hear from my Tangle subscription[0] which has had a pretty even take on it. I've been impresse

I try to limit my intake of news, and so most of the story I only hear from my Tangle subscription[0] which has had a pretty even take on it. I've been impressed with them, so far, but of course everyone has biases and you have to take everything with a grain of salt, etc, etc. Anyway, I agree that "Hamas said so" is one side, and it's weak. And on the other side you have the still-standing hospital. You also have Biden's statement, which I'm sure is based on the latest evidence he has access to. But I do want to point out, that two pieces of the evidence you mention: the misfiring rocket video and the voice recordings, if they're what I think you're referring to, were both released by the Israeli government and have been disputed as well. The video had the wrong timestamps, as pointed out by a NYTimes journalist, and the voice recordings were alleged to be faked, by a mainstream UK-based news agency. It's quite a mess. [0] https://www.readtangle.com/the-explosion-at-a-gaza-hospital/ https://www.readtangle.com/the-explosion-at-a-gaza-hospital/

mupuff1234 3y ago
> The video had the wrong timestamps There was live stream from Al-Jazeera showing the failed rocket at the correct timestamp. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/al-ahli-arab-hospital-piecing-together-what-happened-as-israel-insists-militant-rocket-to-blame https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/al-ahli-arab-h... > and the voice recordings were alleged to be faked By who? The article just leads to a tweet with no citations from any experts.
- bannedbybros 3y ago
  Channel 4 and plenty of other people. Y'all are inside a propaganda bubble. https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1714999704100934034 https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/171499970410093403...
  - mupuff1234 3y ago
    "Two independent Arab journalists" isn't exactly a reputable source - It most likely means they found 2 random people on Twitter. And initially I thought it was probably Israel, but the evidence is fairly overwhelming to support that it is a failed Jihad rocket.
    - jakelazaroff 3y ago
      The IDF released the recordings in the first place. Are you claiming that they're a reputable source?
      - mupuff1234 3y ago
        No I don't. But instead of providing nameless fake experts to try and dispute the recording content they should just say it's impossible to verify so not acceptable as evidence in either direction. Although I wouldn't mind interviews with actual experts, but saying "independent journalists" with no names or anything definitely turns on red flags. But ignoring the recording I still find the evidence strong enough to assume this was in all likelihood a failed jihad rocket.
        jakelazaroff 3y ago
        I came to the opposite conclusion. We can probably just agree to disagree on this.
        mupuff1234 3y ago
        That's fine, although I would be curious to hear what made you reach the opposite conclusion.
        jakelazaroff 3y ago
        - The IDF often lies when the truth makes them look bad, as in the case of the murder of journalist Shireen Abu Akleh: first they claimed she was shot by Palestinians, then that she was caught in crossfire, until it finally emerged that she had been killed by an Israeli sniper - The IDF often attacks hospitals - The IDF warned people to evacuate the hospital repeatedly in the days leading up to the attack - IDF affiliates initially claimed credit for the attack - The IDF posted video “proving” it was a failed rocket launch, then removed the video without acknowledging it when people pointed out that the timestamps didn’t line up - The IDF released an inculpatory recording of Hamas that has since been widely discredited - To the extent that they are able to investigate, many independent organizations have not found evidence supporting the IDF’s claims - The US is resisting calls to allow independent investigations - The IDF has targeted other hospitals since the air strike
- lazystar 3y ago
  > By who? "Hamas said so", that's who. I'm gonna start using this phrase as an idiom, whenever a citation is missing.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
taneq 3y ago
If you were some shadowy organisation conducting psy-ops and you were gonna go to the effort of constructing a credible fake video for something like that, would you not bother to get the friggin' timestamp right?
- 6510 3y ago
  If you are paid to do a job but don't agree with the script that would be something you would get away with. Also see: BBC building 7 collapsed before it exploded.

mupuff1234 3y ago

> The video had the wrong timestamps There was live stream from Al-Jazeera showing the failed rocket at the correct timestamp. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/al-ahli-arab-hospital-piecing-together-what-happened-as-israel-insists-militant-rocket-to-blame https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/18/al-ahli-arab-h... > and the voice recordings were alleged to be faked By who? The article just leads to a tweet with no citations from any experts.

bannedbybros 3y ago
Channel 4 and plenty of other people. Y'all are inside a propaganda bubble. https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/1714999704100934034 https://twitter.com/jacksonhinklle/status/171499970410093403...
- mupuff1234 3y ago
  "Two independent Arab journalists" isn't exactly a reputable source - It most likely means they found 2 random people on Twitter. And initially I thought it was probably Israel, but the evidence is fairly overwhelming to support that it is a failed Jihad rocket.
  - jakelazaroff 3y ago
    The IDF released the recordings in the first place. Are you claiming that they're a reputable source?
    - mupuff1234 3y ago
      No I don't. But instead of providing nameless fake experts to try and dispute the recording content they should just say it's impossible to verify so not acceptable as evidence in either direction. Although I wouldn't mind interviews with actual experts, but saying "independent journalists" with no names or anything definitely turns on red flags. But ignoring the recording I still find the evidence strong enough to assume this was in all likelihood a failed jihad rocket.
      - jakelazaroff 3y ago
        I came to the opposite conclusion. We can probably just agree to disagree on this.
        mupuff1234 3y ago
        That's fine, although I would be curious to hear what made you reach the opposite conclusion.
        jakelazaroff 3y ago
        - The IDF often lies when the truth makes them look bad, as in the case of the murder of journalist Shireen Abu Akleh: first they claimed she was shot by Palestinians, then that she was caught in crossfire, until it finally emerged that she had been killed by an Israeli sniper - The IDF often attacks hospitals - The IDF warned people to evacuate the hospital repeatedly in the days leading up to the attack - IDF affiliates initially claimed credit for the attack - The IDF posted video “proving” it was a failed rocket launch, then removed the video without acknowledging it when people pointed out that the timestamps didn’t line up - The IDF released an inculpatory recording of Hamas that has since been widely discredited - To the extent that they are able to investigate, many independent organizations have not found evidence supporting the IDF’s claims - The US is resisting calls to allow independent investigations - The IDF has targeted other hospitals since the air strike
lazystar 3y ago
> By who? "Hamas said so", that's who. I'm gonna start using this phrase as an idiom, whenever a citation is missing.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

taneq 3y ago

If you were some shadowy organisation conducting psy-ops and you were gonna go to the effort of constructing a credible fake video for something like that, would you not bother to get the friggin' timestamp right?

6510 3y ago
If you are paid to do a job but don't agree with the script that would be something you would get away with. Also see: BBC building 7 collapsed before it exploded.