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I dont think hosting it under the main domain is a good idea. https://status.slack.com https://status.slack.com. There is a non-zero chance that something bad

I dont think hosting it under the main domain is a good idea. https://status.slack.com https://status.slack.com. There is a non-zero chance that something bad could happen with the domain, or something else that would prevent people from visiting the status page. Using an independent 3rd party provider for such communication is, in my opinion prudent. I believe that there are a few companies who run services for it. Personally, I do not want the hassle of having to set up, and maintain a list of various RSS, ActivityPub, pubsub, whatever else for every tech vendor I am in contact with. It is a good use case for Twitter. (even though they suck)

rewmie 3y ago
> There is a non-zero chance that something bad could happen with the domain (...) If something happens with the domain that prevents you from accessing the service, the page works as intended by being down. I mean, what do you think users will say when they go to the domain and their browser shows an error?
- viraptor 3y ago
  > what do you think users will say when they go to the domain and their browser shows an error? - Is my internet down? Can I access any page? - Is that a region accessibility issue for my location? - So they killed the status service and I won't know when the main service is back. The outage scope and estimated time to be back online may not matter much if you just want to check the latest memes. But if you're coordinating some product launch / promotion, this may be very important info. Even more so if that idea of "everything app" ever materialises and the question becomes "so when can I make that payment".
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > - Is my internet down? Can I access any page? ...and in a few seconds the same user opens google.com. What then? > - Is that a region accessibility issue for my location? Why does a user care? A user only cares if they can access the page from where they are at that moment. > - So they killed the status service and I won't know when the main service is back. Users check if the main service is back by hitting F5 to try to access the main service. Either it's up or down. If they can't access the service, it makes no difference if they can access the status page or not, because they already have their answer. I think you're trying very hard to overthink and overcomplicate something that's quite simple and straight-forward. All a canary does is check if the service is up, and possibly track uptime as well.
    - willsmith72 3y ago
      > Either it's up or down. If they can't access the service, it makes no difference if they can access the status page or not, because they already have their answer. This is just categorically false. The difference between "something went wrong", "we're looking into it", "we've found the problem and are working on a fix", and "we have a fix and are deploying it region-by-region" is huge. If an upstream dependency of mine is having issues, I need to communicate it to my clients/users as well, and they also want to know this stuff. E.g. a lot of people use Slack with external users for support and collaboration. The scope of the outage will determine if I should try to onboard them to a new system as quick as possible or wait it out. But this isn't just about Slack. It could be any service operating at any scale, with varying levels of support. Employees might be asleep, it might be that just my subdomain/project is having issues, it could be planned maintenance, maybe an issue with the hosting provider. As a customer I want to know all of that, and as a business I feel obliged to provide it.
      - rewmie 3y ago
        > The difference between "something went wrong", "we're looking into it", "we've found the problem and are working on a fix", and "we have a fix and are deploying it region-by-region" is huge. It's also a figment of your imagination. No service provider provides those fine-granular updates. Even AWS shows their services as up when they are clearly major outages going. The only reliable services tracking outages are third-party canary services that rely on crowdsourced reports, and obviously those don't come even close to providing any insight onto progress. I think you're confusing your own wishful thinking with real-world implementations of status reporting services.
        willsmith72 3y ago
        I think you haven't worked with or on real production systems, or with real paying clients
        viraptor 3y ago
        > No service provider provides those fine-granular updates. I wrote some of those, so... yes they do. You just didn't get to experience them.
- willsmith72 3y ago
  That's not at all what a good status page is. If I'm a business using a service, and I'm having issues with it, I need to know: - If they know about it - If they have a fix ETA - Any other problems related to their service which I haven't noticed And many more things, which actually need a status page not an "error"
  - rewmie 3y ago
    > If they know about it What exactly leads you to believe that each and every employee of Slack would fail to notice that each and every single service accessed through the domain slack.com was down? > - If they have a fix ETA I never saw a single status page that provided that. At all. In fact, the most reliable status monitoring services tend to be crowdsourced third-party services, which obviously do not track ETAs for fixes. > Any other problems related to their service which I haven't noticed I see no reason why that could not be provided through the company's domain.
    - HPsquared 3y ago
      Domain / IP could perhaps be inaccessible only from certain locations, and staff could be unaware in that case.
      - rewmie 3y ago
        > Domain / IP could perhaps be inaccessible only from certain locations, and staff could be unaware in that case. Your hypothetical scenario either involves a regional deployment being down, which I would be very surprise if any non-amateur setup didn't tracked with canaries, or if there's a problem with how the internet is being routed, which is something that's beyond the control of any team but canaries would also flag.
pmontra 3y ago
It already happened that some company messed with the domain of one of their products and was not able to communicate it on a status page hosted on that very domain. The usual workaround was to check their Twitter page but that's less and less likely. To recap: it's better to have separate domain for status reports.
jotato 3y ago
Isn't there the same chance that any domain has that chance? I'm struggling to see how Slackstatus.com is any safer than status.slack.com. Genuinely curious - I'm not trying to start an argument:)
- bentcorner 3y ago
  A change that is capable of bringing down slack.com will probably take down status.slack.com too. Whereas slackstatus.com would (hopefully) be more isolated from such failures. It's true that your overall chance of failure is now higher, what you really don't want is for both to be down at the same time.
  - stoyko 3y ago
    Not necessary true. As long as status.slack.com is it's own separate A record, as long as you don't change the DNS Zone for slack.com, they are pretty much separate. Now, if they use a WildCard SSL for *slack.com and that goes down, then yeah. But other than that, having it on a sub domain shouldn't be a major issue. Also, I'd much more trust the status.slack.com subdomain than slackstatus.com, which might be some 3rd party thing.
    - matsur 3y ago
      This is not theoretical — Slack had a domain wide outage recently. https://slack.engineering/what-happened-during-slacks-dnssec-rollout/ https://slack.engineering/what-happened-during-slacks-dnssec...

rewmie 3y ago

> There is a non-zero chance that something bad could happen with the domain (...) If something happens with the domain that prevents you from accessing the service, the page works as intended by being down. I mean, what do you think users will say when they go to the domain and their browser shows an error?

viraptor 3y ago
> what do you think users will say when they go to the domain and their browser shows an error? - Is my internet down? Can I access any page? - Is that a region accessibility issue for my location? - So they killed the status service and I won't know when the main service is back. The outage scope and estimated time to be back online may not matter much if you just want to check the latest memes. But if you're coordinating some product launch / promotion, this may be very important info. Even more so if that idea of "everything app" ever materialises and the question becomes "so when can I make that payment".
- rewmie 3y ago
  > - Is my internet down? Can I access any page? ...and in a few seconds the same user opens google.com. What then? > - Is that a region accessibility issue for my location? Why does a user care? A user only cares if they can access the page from where they are at that moment. > - So they killed the status service and I won't know when the main service is back. Users check if the main service is back by hitting F5 to try to access the main service. Either it's up or down. If they can't access the service, it makes no difference if they can access the status page or not, because they already have their answer. I think you're trying very hard to overthink and overcomplicate something that's quite simple and straight-forward. All a canary does is check if the service is up, and possibly track uptime as well.
  - willsmith72 3y ago
    > Either it's up or down. If they can't access the service, it makes no difference if they can access the status page or not, because they already have their answer. This is just categorically false. The difference between "something went wrong", "we're looking into it", "we've found the problem and are working on a fix", and "we have a fix and are deploying it region-by-region" is huge. If an upstream dependency of mine is having issues, I need to communicate it to my clients/users as well, and they also want to know this stuff. E.g. a lot of people use Slack with external users for support and collaboration. The scope of the outage will determine if I should try to onboard them to a new system as quick as possible or wait it out. But this isn't just about Slack. It could be any service operating at any scale, with varying levels of support. Employees might be asleep, it might be that just my subdomain/project is having issues, it could be planned maintenance, maybe an issue with the hosting provider. As a customer I want to know all of that, and as a business I feel obliged to provide it.
    - rewmie 3y ago
      > The difference between "something went wrong", "we're looking into it", "we've found the problem and are working on a fix", and "we have a fix and are deploying it region-by-region" is huge. It's also a figment of your imagination. No service provider provides those fine-granular updates. Even AWS shows their services as up when they are clearly major outages going. The only reliable services tracking outages are third-party canary services that rely on crowdsourced reports, and obviously those don't come even close to providing any insight onto progress. I think you're confusing your own wishful thinking with real-world implementations of status reporting services.
      - willsmith72 3y ago
        I think you haven't worked with or on real production systems, or with real paying clients
      - viraptor 3y ago
        > No service provider provides those fine-granular updates. I wrote some of those, so... yes they do. You just didn't get to experience them.
willsmith72 3y ago
That's not at all what a good status page is. If I'm a business using a service, and I'm having issues with it, I need to know: - If they know about it - If they have a fix ETA - Any other problems related to their service which I haven't noticed And many more things, which actually need a status page not an "error"
- rewmie 3y ago
  > If they know about it What exactly leads you to believe that each and every employee of Slack would fail to notice that each and every single service accessed through the domain slack.com was down? > - If they have a fix ETA I never saw a single status page that provided that. At all. In fact, the most reliable status monitoring services tend to be crowdsourced third-party services, which obviously do not track ETAs for fixes. > Any other problems related to their service which I haven't noticed I see no reason why that could not be provided through the company's domain.
  - HPsquared 3y ago
    Domain / IP could perhaps be inaccessible only from certain locations, and staff could be unaware in that case.
    - rewmie 3y ago
      > Domain / IP could perhaps be inaccessible only from certain locations, and staff could be unaware in that case. Your hypothetical scenario either involves a regional deployment being down, which I would be very surprise if any non-amateur setup didn't tracked with canaries, or if there's a problem with how the internet is being routed, which is something that's beyond the control of any team but canaries would also flag.

pmontra 3y ago

It already happened that some company messed with the domain of one of their products and was not able to communicate it on a status page hosted on that very domain. The usual workaround was to check their Twitter page but that's less and less likely. To recap: it's better to have separate domain for status reports.

jotato 3y ago

Isn't there the same chance that any domain has that chance? I'm struggling to see how Slackstatus.com is any safer than status.slack.com. Genuinely curious - I'm not trying to start an argument:)

bentcorner 3y ago
A change that is capable of bringing down slack.com will probably take down status.slack.com too. Whereas slackstatus.com would (hopefully) be more isolated from such failures. It's true that your overall chance of failure is now higher, what you really don't want is for both to be down at the same time.
- stoyko 3y ago
  Not necessary true. As long as status.slack.com is it's own separate A record, as long as you don't change the DNS Zone for slack.com, they are pretty much separate. Now, if they use a WildCard SSL for *slack.com and that goes down, then yeah. But other than that, having it on a sub domain shouldn't be a major issue. Also, I'd much more trust the status.slack.com subdomain than slackstatus.com, which might be some 3rd party thing.
  - matsur 3y ago
    This is not theoretical — Slack had a domain wide outage recently. https://slack.engineering/what-happened-during-slacks-dnssec-rollout/ https://slack.engineering/what-happened-during-slacks-dnssec...