4 ms·

>knowing I think the risk was huge (personally I thought 50-70% at the time), but not 99% or something. Also (in my opinion) people don't take into account tha

by r721 3y ago

>knowing I think the risk was huge (personally I thought 50-70% at the time), but not 99% or something. Also (in my opinion) people don't take into account that alternative was irrelevance in exile, just look at what happened with Kasparov's popularity inside Russia, and he was a prominent opposition activist in 2011-2012.

rob74 3y ago
Still, people tend to value their life higher than their relevance - I mean, in the West he could have probably lived a comfortable life writing books and articles, working as a TV expert on Russia etc. I also respect his decision, but seeing that the powers that be already tried to kill him once, the chances of him returning to Russia and not being arrested were even lower than 1% I would say...
- RetroTechie 3y ago
  > Still, people tend to value their life higher than their relevance That's exactly what sets rare individuals like Navalny apart: that what they believe in, what they stand for, weighs heavier than their personal well-being.
  - zirgs 3y ago
    Yeah, he wants the same Russian empire as Putin, but with less corruption.
    - caskstrength 3y ago
      > he wants the same Russian empire as Putin, but with less corruption. Exactly. I don't understand fascination of some westerners towards Navalny. He used to attend nazi rallies (literal sieg-heiling nazis, not "you are slightly right of Bernie"), then assumed veneer of political respectability without ever formally denouncing his previous talking points and started campaigning with the main premise of basically "I'll be better and less corrupt Czar of Russian empire". There is nothing liberal or democratic about this guy's political views.
Darmody 3y ago
That's my point. He had put everything at risk because he knew it was the right thing to do. When choosing between doing what you think is best and what keeps you safe, people often choose the later.
- hvis 3y ago
  It also kept him on the map as a Russian politician. Even though his practical communication abilities are pretty limited because of that.
Medox 3y ago
> irrelevance in exile, just look at what happened with Kasparov's popularity inside Russia Then again, Kasparov undermines Russia more efficiently while in exile than Navalny while inside (a prison no less). And Navalvy social media statements in exile might have been even more undermining Kasparov's. Of course, undermining Russia with words might not help at all anyway...
- petre 3y ago
  Whatever Kasparov says or does in exile is quite irrelevant in Russia. This is how actual Russians think: "He's not even in Russia, what does he know." I don't know why Navalny returned to Russia after being poisoned and nearly killed by Putin's thugs, but it was a very brave thing to do. It makes no sense.
  - sterlind 3y ago
    As close as I can tell, Russians tend to be very fatalistic. It's never been a happy place. It's cold, the state is corrupt, life is cheap. But people have a strong personal need for justice, to find those guilty and make them pay. But the state won't deliver justice, so you make a stand, and life is cheap so you take risks and double down. Hence Navalny, hence Litvinenko, hence all the journalists over the years who reported until they were thrown out windows or gunned down in public. Incredibly brave, I only wish the bravery led to real change rather than a neverending Greek tragedy.
    - hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago
      It is because as a person you feel nothing else can be done. So you do the thing that you can do, knowing that probably it can't change much but... what else can you do? Doing nothing like everyone else? From the outside it looks like madness, but when you are that person it seems like keeping your integrity and being able to look in the mirror.
      - petre 3y ago
        > So you do the thing that you can do, knowing that probably it can't change much but... what else can you do? https://youtu.be/9-9LG7-2hV8 https://youtu.be/9-9LG7-2hV8 Russia has always fought tyranny with literature.
sdfghswe 3y ago
If you're going to infer from previous instances revolutionary Russian figures, why not look at Lenin? Or Trotsky?
EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago
At the day he returned, he released his grandest and most damning documentary about Putin's $1B palace and the ways it was financed. Maybe he hoped people would rise up and overturn Putin with him leading the masses.

by r721 3y ago

rob74 3y ago

Still, people tend to value their life higher than their relevance - I mean, in the West he could have probably lived a comfortable life writing books and articles, working as a TV expert on Russia etc. I also respect his decision, but seeing that the powers that be already tried to kill him once, the chances of him returning to Russia and not being arrested were even lower than 1% I would say...

RetroTechie 3y ago
> Still, people tend to value their life higher than their relevance That's exactly what sets rare individuals like Navalny apart: that what they believe in, what they stand for, weighs heavier than their personal well-being.
- zirgs 3y ago
  Yeah, he wants the same Russian empire as Putin, but with less corruption.
  - caskstrength 3y ago
    > he wants the same Russian empire as Putin, but with less corruption. Exactly. I don't understand fascination of some westerners towards Navalny. He used to attend nazi rallies (literal sieg-heiling nazis, not "you are slightly right of Bernie"), then assumed veneer of political respectability without ever formally denouncing his previous talking points and started campaigning with the main premise of basically "I'll be better and less corrupt Czar of Russian empire". There is nothing liberal or democratic about this guy's political views.

Darmody 3y ago

That's my point. He had put everything at risk because he knew it was the right thing to do. When choosing between doing what you think is best and what keeps you safe, people often choose the later.

hvis 3y ago
It also kept him on the map as a Russian politician. Even though his practical communication abilities are pretty limited because of that.

Medox 3y ago

> irrelevance in exile, just look at what happened with Kasparov's popularity inside Russia Then again, Kasparov undermines Russia more efficiently while in exile than Navalny while inside (a prison no less). And Navalvy social media statements in exile might have been even more undermining Kasparov's. Of course, undermining Russia with words might not help at all anyway...

petre 3y ago
Whatever Kasparov says or does in exile is quite irrelevant in Russia. This is how actual Russians think: "He's not even in Russia, what does he know." I don't know why Navalny returned to Russia after being poisoned and nearly killed by Putin's thugs, but it was a very brave thing to do. It makes no sense.
- sterlind 3y ago
  As close as I can tell, Russians tend to be very fatalistic. It's never been a happy place. It's cold, the state is corrupt, life is cheap. But people have a strong personal need for justice, to find those guilty and make them pay. But the state won't deliver justice, so you make a stand, and life is cheap so you take risks and double down. Hence Navalny, hence Litvinenko, hence all the journalists over the years who reported until they were thrown out windows or gunned down in public. Incredibly brave, I only wish the bravery led to real change rather than a neverending Greek tragedy.
  - hdjjhhvvhga 3y ago
    It is because as a person you feel nothing else can be done. So you do the thing that you can do, knowing that probably it can't change much but... what else can you do? Doing nothing like everyone else? From the outside it looks like madness, but when you are that person it seems like keeping your integrity and being able to look in the mirror.
    - petre 3y ago
      > So you do the thing that you can do, knowing that probably it can't change much but... what else can you do? https://youtu.be/9-9LG7-2hV8 https://youtu.be/9-9LG7-2hV8 Russia has always fought tyranny with literature.

sdfghswe 3y ago

If you're going to infer from previous instances revolutionary Russian figures, why not look at Lenin? Or Trotsky?

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 3y ago

At the day he returned, he released his grandest and most damning documentary about Putin's $1B palace and the ways it was financed. Maybe he hoped people would rise up and overturn Putin with him leading the masses.