4 ms·

> The company wants to ‘focus resources on those most widely used by our customers.’ I wanted to do the same last year, but interestingly nobody of my audience

by rurban 3y ago

> The company wants to ‘focus resources on those most widely used by our customers.’ I wanted to do the same last year, but interestingly nobody of my audience went off from X to mastodon, so I still have to post my film industry updates to X. Similarily when WhatsApp changed its Terms of Use to be incompatible with german privacy laws (using whatsapp content for facebook profiling), I had to give up whatsapp as primary communication medium in the local club I'm leading. But nobody else went to Signal, so now we are back again with whatsapp. Nobody cares

xlii 3y ago
> Nobody cares That’s a mental shortcut. Social circle you decided to be in doesn’t care. On the other hand I did research on WhatsApp vs. alternatives and decided to promote Telegram. Sure, it’s not that/very secure, but UX is on completely different level than Signal. It was much easier to transition people on aesthetics alone in comparison to Signal which has its own “quirks” (making sense from security standpoint but perceived as anti-features for casual user e.g. history transfer).
- liopleurodon 3y ago
  >Social circle you decided to be in doesn't care. I didn't choose the family I was born into, lol
  - ciberado 3y ago
    I took the phones of my parents and siblings to install Telegram on them myself ;) My brother and sister use it sporadically, but I still can send them messages knowing they will read them sooner or later. My parents are more proficient with it than me, now :).
    - j16sdiz 3y ago
      If my kid or sibling took my phone and install ANYTHING on them, i would wipe reset the phone and never trust them ever again.
      - ckolkey 3y ago
        I'm sorry to hear that.
      - watwut 3y ago
        Yeah, do not touch my phone and do not install apps on it.
      - Hamuko 3y ago
        Sounds like you don't trust them already.
  - numpad0 3y ago
    This was always the problem. Your social media environment and opsec too relies largely on your social graph that you have no control over. Maybe LLM based scraping/automation solve this mid-long term?
- jacooper 3y ago
  Moving to telegram doesn't make sense at all if you are worried about your privacy, it's not encrypted and they have access to all of your messages, a huge downgrade.
  - Mayora13 3y ago
    Element is already better than most other Messenger Frontends. Matrix is becomming incredibly sexy. Also Element is working on element-x android and ios that is using the Matrix Rust SDK. Also matrix spaces is more elegant than telegram folders.
    - jacooper 3y ago
      True but until element X is fully ready, it's not usable for the average user. Also, it's still not great on the desktop.
  - herbst 3y ago
    A private company having apparently access to all my messages (it's not true, there is encryption) is still somewhat better than meta AND the whole US government having access to my data
    - HenryBemis 3y ago
      > it's not true, there is encryption Who has the keys? What exactly is encrypted? 1-2-1 chats? Group chats? Attachments? Are metadata handed over? Dear Autumn12 don't just read the marketing material. In a real example: Apple's Cloud has a copy of most users' data as (by f...g default) when you activate an iphone it enables them all. I remember the case with that terrorist (was it the Boston Marathon guy?) that Apple wouldn't hack the device but they handed everything they had on their cloud to FBI.
      - herbst 3y ago
        Op claimed it's not encrypted. Which again is simply wrong. Other than that you'll find details about their p2p encryption here https://core.telegram.org/api/end-to-end https://core.telegram.org/api/end-to-end if you want. I don't know what you want to say with your example, but there are dozens of examples where telegram did not give out data even thought they likely should have. It's definitely a more private choice to apple or meta
apsurd 3y ago
be change you want to see in the world. you don't care (enough).
- rurban 3y ago
  I did care enough. But the mastodon feedback was zero, and X as before. For Signal, even with an enormous amount of pressure only 1/1000 changed.
- libraryatnight 3y ago
  Indeed, I haven't visited an X link in awhile, more and more of the things I follow are cropping up in other places - this person seems to have been defeated quite easily.
- jacooper 3y ago
  In social contexts you caring isn't enough, it's why the network effect is so strong and why the Digital Markets Act exists.
- 3seashells 3y ago
  It's just that creepiness of the data cthulus is well hidden. But people care, they vote for strange figures to get rid of it all.
libraryatnight 3y ago
I care, so you're already wrong. Seems like you don't care because you're not immediately getting the attention you're used to elsewhere.
Me1000 3y ago
On the other hand NPR found that leaving twitter had no impact on traffic[0]. I'm sure the millions of accounts following NPR didn't move to other platforms, so that leave the conclusion that Twitter was never a great driver of traffic for certain platforms to begin with. Of course I'm sure this depends on each accounts circumstances. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37848074 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37848074
- willcipriano 3y ago
  NPR found what we all know, people just read the headline very few actually click the article.
- suddenclarity 3y ago
  "No impact" doesn't seem quite accurate considering they lost more than half of their Twitter traffic. It did only account for a small part of their total traffic though so I understand what you mean. With this said, it sounds like NPR had no idea why they used Twitter. My best news source is a paid service that summarizes every article in the headline. It gives them both money and tremendous power to set the narrative but few clicks. NPR instead measured their success in CTR which seems like a strange measurement for the genre, especially when you don't get your main funding from ads.
  - devjab 3y ago
    I think it’s just the start of the “the emperor has no clothes” iceberg that is social media. I actually think GP is on to something with their “nobody cares” bit, because if people aren’t going to follow you outside of X then they probably don’t really care about what you’re sharing. There is obviously a lot to be said about the large “community” but in many ways but if it’s just a lot of “talk” then where is the actual value in it? If “hits” don’t correlate to actual product sales then it’s just a waste of time, and how likely are you really to sell your product to people who won’t even bother following you outside of X?
    - suddenclarity 3y ago
pests 3y ago
> interestingly nobody of my audience went off X to mastodon Did you really expect otherwise? A niche platform only cared for by a niche of a niche of a community? When X has 500million users and Mastodon 10million. 400m monthly daily users verses 100,000. Tens of millions of app downloads vs not even 250k total... I just don't see it. Even just raw numbers and probabilities it would be unlikely
- kawhah 3y ago
  Mastodon has around 2 million monthly active users.
  - rapnie 3y ago
    And then compare interesting discussions and engagement you have on this much smaller Fediverse already with your few-follower account. Xitter is broadcast-mostly influencer garbage network.
  - pests 3y ago
    Basically a rounding error.
jacooper 3y ago
100%, and if you try to force it you just find that people are just more inactive and won't answer. So it's either prioritize your social life or digital privacy. This should change with DMA.
- herbst 3y ago
  They get a notification like with any other app and can answer. It's not like they need any extra hoops to talk to you. I just removed WhatsApp long ago and honestly it's very rare that I meet anyone who doesn't have signal or telegram as alternative
  - jacooper 3y ago
    Sure, but that means they will never initiate a conversation with you
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> nobody of my audience went off from X to mastodon Including Slack. Who are moving off X. In most cases, another protocol—be it a status page or even an email—may be better.
- TylerE 3y ago
  Who didn't see this coming from a million miles away? Federated protocols are a disaster for the average user. (And yes - that ABSOLUTELY includes email).
- nicky0 3y ago
  They are only closing their automated status account. Slack still has thair main account on X, according to the article.
sofixa 3y ago
> Similarily when WhatsApp changed its Terms of Use to be incompatible with german privacy laws (using whatsapp content for facebook profiling), I had to give up whatsapp as primary communication medium in the local club I'm leading. Did they do that in Germany? The ToS didn't change in France precisely because it was incompatible with GDPR and previous EU rulings[1], and I thought their new ToS didn't apply to the EU at all. 1 - such as https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/pl/IP_17_1369 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/pl/IP_17_...
dpz 3y ago
yeah i know how you feel on the whatsapp/signal, I quite involved in a sports club of 400+ people and along with that and most of my friends couldn't get anyone to leave whatsapp behind, so still with it... After all the data scandals and leaks you'd think people would be beginning to care but no one does
viraptor 3y ago
> but interestingly nobody of my audience went off from X to mastodon, so I still have to post my film industry updates to X. There's lots of products which allow you to post to both at the same time. Unless you're posting to alternative networks, the next person will run into the exact same issue, and the one after that, and...

by rurban 3y ago

xlii 3y ago

> Nobody cares That’s a mental shortcut. Social circle you decided to be in doesn’t care. On the other hand I did research on WhatsApp vs. alternatives and decided to promote Telegram. Sure, it’s not that/very secure, but UX is on completely different level than Signal. It was much easier to transition people on aesthetics alone in comparison to Signal which has its own “quirks” (making sense from security standpoint but perceived as anti-features for casual user e.g. history transfer).

liopleurodon 3y ago
>Social circle you decided to be in doesn't care. I didn't choose the family I was born into, lol
- ciberado 3y ago
  I took the phones of my parents and siblings to install Telegram on them myself ;) My brother and sister use it sporadically, but I still can send them messages knowing they will read them sooner or later. My parents are more proficient with it than me, now :).
  - j16sdiz 3y ago
    If my kid or sibling took my phone and install ANYTHING on them, i would wipe reset the phone and never trust them ever again.
    - ckolkey 3y ago
      I'm sorry to hear that.
    - watwut 3y ago
      Yeah, do not touch my phone and do not install apps on it.
    - Hamuko 3y ago
      Sounds like you don't trust them already.
- numpad0 3y ago
  This was always the problem. Your social media environment and opsec too relies largely on your social graph that you have no control over. Maybe LLM based scraping/automation solve this mid-long term?
jacooper 3y ago
Moving to telegram doesn't make sense at all if you are worried about your privacy, it's not encrypted and they have access to all of your messages, a huge downgrade.
- Mayora13 3y ago
  Element is already better than most other Messenger Frontends. Matrix is becomming incredibly sexy. Also Element is working on element-x android and ios that is using the Matrix Rust SDK. Also matrix spaces is more elegant than telegram folders.
  - jacooper 3y ago
    True but until element X is fully ready, it's not usable for the average user. Also, it's still not great on the desktop.
- herbst 3y ago
  A private company having apparently access to all my messages (it's not true, there is encryption) is still somewhat better than meta AND the whole US government having access to my data
  - HenryBemis 3y ago
    > it's not true, there is encryption Who has the keys? What exactly is encrypted? 1-2-1 chats? Group chats? Attachments? Are metadata handed over? Dear Autumn12 don't just read the marketing material. In a real example: Apple's Cloud has a copy of most users' data as (by f...g default) when you activate an iphone it enables them all. I remember the case with that terrorist (was it the Boston Marathon guy?) that Apple wouldn't hack the device but they handed everything they had on their cloud to FBI.
    - herbst 3y ago
      Op claimed it's not encrypted. Which again is simply wrong. Other than that you'll find details about their p2p encryption here https://core.telegram.org/api/end-to-end https://core.telegram.org/api/end-to-end if you want. I don't know what you want to say with your example, but there are dozens of examples where telegram did not give out data even thought they likely should have. It's definitely a more private choice to apple or meta

apsurd 3y ago

be change you want to see in the world. you don't care (enough).

rurban 3y ago
I did care enough. But the mastodon feedback was zero, and X as before. For Signal, even with an enormous amount of pressure only 1/1000 changed.
libraryatnight 3y ago
Indeed, I haven't visited an X link in awhile, more and more of the things I follow are cropping up in other places - this person seems to have been defeated quite easily.
jacooper 3y ago
In social contexts you caring isn't enough, it's why the network effect is so strong and why the Digital Markets Act exists.
3seashells 3y ago
It's just that creepiness of the data cthulus is well hidden. But people care, they vote for strange figures to get rid of it all.

libraryatnight 3y ago

I care, so you're already wrong. Seems like you don't care because you're not immediately getting the attention you're used to elsewhere.

Me1000 3y ago

On the other hand NPR found that leaving twitter had no impact on traffic[0]. I'm sure the millions of accounts following NPR didn't move to other platforms, so that leave the conclusion that Twitter was never a great driver of traffic for certain platforms to begin with. Of course I'm sure this depends on each accounts circumstances. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37848074 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37848074

willcipriano 3y ago
NPR found what we all know, people just read the headline very few actually click the article.
suddenclarity 3y ago
"No impact" doesn't seem quite accurate considering they lost more than half of their Twitter traffic. It did only account for a small part of their total traffic though so I understand what you mean. With this said, it sounds like NPR had no idea why they used Twitter. My best news source is a paid service that summarizes every article in the headline. It gives them both money and tremendous power to set the narrative but few clicks. NPR instead measured their success in CTR which seems like a strange measurement for the genre, especially when you don't get your main funding from ads.
- devjab 3y ago
  I think it’s just the start of the “the emperor has no clothes” iceberg that is social media. I actually think GP is on to something with their “nobody cares” bit, because if people aren’t going to follow you outside of X then they probably don’t really care about what you’re sharing. There is obviously a lot to be said about the large “community” but in many ways but if it’s just a lot of “talk” then where is the actual value in it? If “hits” don’t correlate to actual product sales then it’s just a waste of time, and how likely are you really to sell your product to people who won’t even bother following you outside of X?
  - suddenclarity 3y ago

pests 3y ago

> interestingly nobody of my audience went off X to mastodon Did you really expect otherwise? A niche platform only cared for by a niche of a niche of a community? When X has 500million users and Mastodon 10million. 400m monthly daily users verses 100,000. Tens of millions of app downloads vs not even 250k total... I just don't see it. Even just raw numbers and probabilities it would be unlikely

kawhah 3y ago
Mastodon has around 2 million monthly active users.
- rapnie 3y ago
  And then compare interesting discussions and engagement you have on this much smaller Fediverse already with your few-follower account. Xitter is broadcast-mostly influencer garbage network.
- pests 3y ago
  Basically a rounding error.

jacooper 3y ago

100%, and if you try to force it you just find that people are just more inactive and won't answer. So it's either prioritize your social life or digital privacy. This should change with DMA.

herbst 3y ago
They get a notification like with any other app and can answer. It's not like they need any extra hoops to talk to you. I just removed WhatsApp long ago and honestly it's very rare that I meet anyone who doesn't have signal or telegram as alternative
- jacooper 3y ago
  Sure, but that means they will never initiate a conversation with you

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> nobody of my audience went off from X to mastodon Including Slack. Who are moving off X. In most cases, another protocol—be it a status page or even an email—may be better.

TylerE 3y ago
Who didn't see this coming from a million miles away? Federated protocols are a disaster for the average user. (And yes - that ABSOLUTELY includes email).
nicky0 3y ago
They are only closing their automated status account. Slack still has thair main account on X, according to the article.

sofixa 3y ago

> Similarily when WhatsApp changed its Terms of Use to be incompatible with german privacy laws (using whatsapp content for facebook profiling), I had to give up whatsapp as primary communication medium in the local club I'm leading. Did they do that in Germany? The ToS didn't change in France precisely because it was incompatible with GDPR and previous EU rulings[1], and I thought their new ToS didn't apply to the EU at all. 1 - such as https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/pl/IP_17_1369 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/pl/IP_17_...

dpz 3y ago

yeah i know how you feel on the whatsapp/signal, I quite involved in a sports club of 400+ people and along with that and most of my friends couldn't get anyone to leave whatsapp behind, so still with it... After all the data scandals and leaks you'd think people would be beginning to care but no one does

viraptor 3y ago

> but interestingly nobody of my audience went off from X to mastodon, so I still have to post my film industry updates to X. There's lots of products which allow you to post to both at the same time. Unless you're posting to alternative networks, the next person will run into the exact same issue, and the one after that, and...