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It's a complex thing to unpack because it depends a lot on a person's relationship with not just their employer, but with their idea of work, and even their ide

It's a complex thing to unpack because it depends a lot on a person's relationship with not just their employer, but with their idea of work, and even their idea of LIFE. It gets pretty existential. On a core level, why do we work? From the beginning, everyone's answer will sit somewhere on a range that goes everywhere from "Because we are exploited cogs in a capitalist machine" to "Because we need money to live" to "Because we are contributing to the growth of humanity" to "Because we need purpose with our finite existence" to "Because it is a virtue on an infinite metaphysical plane". These depend on how naturally philosophical you are about how you perceive yourself, humanity, the universe, and your time on earth. And it depends on how much luxury your born circumstances (family, class, education, geography, society) offer in terms of agency and choice in your employment. So IMO i very much respect the people who take your attitude: "It's a job. You make what you want of it. You work hard. You get compensated. You contribute to society. You move forward" But I also understand the people who take the attitude of "It has no dignity. You can tell the employer wants to replace me with a robot but until robots can be as good at nuance as I am, will expect ME to be as efficient as a robot. I am a cog in a machine that created the richest person on the planet, and all it cost was the destruction of small town Americana. (Though WalMart probably did most of the death blows)"

colonCapitalDee 3y ago
Why do we work? Because the natural state of the modern human is subsistence farming. Anything more than that (like groceries, clothes, health care, beds, running water, electricity, cable tv, magazines, restaurants, etc) requires capital and organized labor. A job is nothing more than performing labor, using capital, in concert with other workers.
- tschwimmer 3y ago
  a minor nit here: I'm pretty sure the natural state of the modern human is hunter gathering, not farming. Seems like the modern human species originated 230k years ago [0] and agriculture a mere 25k years[1]. The overall thrust of your comment is still correct. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_modern_human#cite_ref-Vidal22_2-0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_modern_human#cite_ref-Vi... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture#cite_ref-19 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture#cite_ref-19
  - colonCapitalDee 3y ago
    I was using "modern" to refer to "right now", and I think I'm correct that if civilization collapsed tomorrow we would go back to being subsistence farmers, not hunter gatherers, because we have access to all sorts of plants that are amenable to being farmed. But you're right, the phrase "modern humans" does have a specific meaning, and I did not use it correctly.
WillAdams 3y ago
Ages ago, I was a Night Counselor at a school for boys --- I made it a point to attend the weekly staff meetings. Once, there was a not particularly bright young man who had been at the school for almost a year, which was longer than most students and it was suggested that he simply be removed from the program on the basis that he hadn't made much progress recently, and wasn't likely to, to which one of the other counselors commented, "He's only going to be a janitor anyway." (referring to his lack of intellect) and another rejoined, "Yeah, one who pilfers stuff when no one is looking." --- my response was that if we kept him in the program and pushed him to graduate we would get an honest janitor who wouldn't steal and that there was dignity and worth in that. The lead counselor agreed, he stayed, and a couple of months later he was graduated. A couple of years later, I met him in a nearby town --- he was attending a trade school and about to graduate. When I was much younger than he was, I worked each summer baling hay --- I was 104 pounds when I enlisted in the Air Force, and I was quite a bit less than that at 14--16 --- but I picked up 40--75 lb. hay bales and put them on a truck until the field was empty. As regards compensation at Amazon --- when I first started, folks got stock, but then that was negotiated away for more immediate compensation, so I don't understand why folks complain about not sharing in Amazon's valuation. The fundamental problem is that there is a finite amount of work which needs to be done each day so as to make it possible that each person has food and electric and so forth, as well as whatever else they might want --- how is that work to be apportioned out?

colonCapitalDee 3y ago

Why do we work? Because the natural state of the modern human is subsistence farming. Anything more than that (like groceries, clothes, health care, beds, running water, electricity, cable tv, magazines, restaurants, etc) requires capital and organized labor. A job is nothing more than performing labor, using capital, in concert with other workers.

tschwimmer 3y ago
a minor nit here: I'm pretty sure the natural state of the modern human is hunter gathering, not farming. Seems like the modern human species originated 230k years ago [0] and agriculture a mere 25k years[1]. The overall thrust of your comment is still correct. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_modern_human#cite_ref-Vidal22_2-0 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_modern_human#cite_ref-Vi... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture#cite_ref-19 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture#cite_ref-19
- colonCapitalDee 3y ago
  I was using "modern" to refer to "right now", and I think I'm correct that if civilization collapsed tomorrow we would go back to being subsistence farmers, not hunter gatherers, because we have access to all sorts of plants that are amenable to being farmed. But you're right, the phrase "modern humans" does have a specific meaning, and I did not use it correctly.

WillAdams 3y ago

Ages ago, I was a Night Counselor at a school for boys --- I made it a point to attend the weekly staff meetings. Once, there was a not particularly bright young man who had been at the school for almost a year, which was longer than most students and it was suggested that he simply be removed from the program on the basis that he hadn't made much progress recently, and wasn't likely to, to which one of the other counselors commented, "He's only going to be a janitor anyway." (referring to his lack of intellect) and another rejoined, "Yeah, one who pilfers stuff when no one is looking." --- my response was that if we kept him in the program and pushed him to graduate we would get an honest janitor who wouldn't steal and that there was dignity and worth in that. The lead counselor agreed, he stayed, and a couple of months later he was graduated. A couple of years later, I met him in a nearby town --- he was attending a trade school and about to graduate. When I was much younger than he was, I worked each summer baling hay --- I was 104 pounds when I enlisted in the Air Force, and I was quite a bit less than that at 14--16 --- but I picked up 40--75 lb. hay bales and put them on a truck until the field was empty. As regards compensation at Amazon --- when I first started, folks got stock, but then that was negotiated away for more immediate compensation, so I don't understand why folks complain about not sharing in Amazon's valuation. The fundamental problem is that there is a finite amount of work which needs to be done each day so as to make it possible that each person has food and electric and so forth, as well as whatever else they might want --- how is that work to be apportioned out?