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By definition unions have local monopolies and can't be attacked. In a well-run truly free economy, corporations don't have that. my view of the power distrib

By definition unions have local monopolies and can't be attacked. In a well-run truly free economy, corporations don't have that. my view of the power distributions and their results * company town, one company enslaving all workers <=== bad * town with many companies, competing for workers. incentivizes all to good behavior <=== good * town with many companies, each with a union that locks down behavior and can't be attacked <=== somewhat bad, blocks change, can be taken over by corrupt unions, but can also give benefits. as in your comment, though, people become extremely dogmatic about this and it becomes rational to be "union forever right or wrong" rather than actually thinking about the best way to organize things. i.e. police unions being insanely defensive and stubborn, and not enforcing any quality controls on cops. * one/zero companies, one national union - i.e. CCP. When put into place, doesn't work, and when not well-controlled devolves to basically worker enslavement. Most of the history of modern China, and lots of historical USSR were like this. At other times they simulated stage 2 where there was competition on both worker and employer sides, and they had good results (80s-90s) To your point about house ownership being protected by law, but job ownership not being, I think it's a matter of contracts. Selling someone and helping them own it forever is fairly trivial since it's independent (the house can decay and nobody has to pay for it, water may run out etc). But providing a job forever is another story since it clearly requires continued input of a certain quality from the worker, as well as an assumption about stability of the company, part of the economy. So it's quite easy to enforce property ownership since there are basically no guarantees (air quality, noise, availability of food, etc etc may all die out but the person still owns the land). But for a job there's no way that anyone can ensure that it will always be profitable or useful to pay a person (who ages) to do a thing.

elygre 3y ago
> By definition unions have local monopolies and can't be attacked. I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “local monopolies”, so this comment may be a bit off base: My Norwegian employer (<1000 employees) deals with four different unions and a bunch of un-unionized people. (All with no problem)
- epivosism 3y ago
  Ah thanks. My basic knowledge of the US was that most workplaces have a single union, and that in many cases membership is very high. IE police, teachers, doctors, lawyers, auto workers. But looking it up now it's not as clear. Yes the case you mention of multiple unions and also individuals seems possibly more balanced! Thanks. I'd like to see a comparative analysis of how the legal and social infrastructure for unions differs in outcomes between all the different ways it has been done across countries, industries, and time.
  - epivosism 3y ago
    For example, the current UAW strike seems very damaging. They're attacking the very nature of the auto companies and saying they don't even have the right to make money or try to profit, and demanding huge wage increases and further union expansion to include the battery plant. Meanwhile the companies are losing 30k+ per EV sold and are only about 10% of Tesla's size, and Tesla has something like an 18% profit margin even after price reductions. The unions might win locally but put the companies out of business in five or ten years by slowing them down. So, this structure of a single union led by a guy who's already independently wealthy and old and for whom the long term survival of the union doesn't matter monetarily, and the fact that the companies simply have to deal with him, and for electoral reasons both Biden and Trump showed up on the picket lines... I would quit if I were an exec there. Feels like they'll be driven out of business and bailed out either publicly or secretly within ten years. Market tracking this: https://manifold.markets/Ernie/will-ford-gm-or-stellantis-be-baile?r=RXJuaWU https://manifold.markets/Ernie/will-ford-gm-or-stellantis-be...
bmicraft 3y ago
> In a well-run truly free economy Either the economy is truly free, or it is "well-run" aka state managed. Pick one. It can only be truly free without any state intervention.

elygre 3y ago

> By definition unions have local monopolies and can't be attacked. I’m not sure I understand what you mean by “local monopolies”, so this comment may be a bit off base: My Norwegian employer (<1000 employees) deals with four different unions and a bunch of un-unionized people. (All with no problem)

epivosism 3y ago
Ah thanks. My basic knowledge of the US was that most workplaces have a single union, and that in many cases membership is very high. IE police, teachers, doctors, lawyers, auto workers. But looking it up now it's not as clear. Yes the case you mention of multiple unions and also individuals seems possibly more balanced! Thanks. I'd like to see a comparative analysis of how the legal and social infrastructure for unions differs in outcomes between all the different ways it has been done across countries, industries, and time.
- epivosism 3y ago
  For example, the current UAW strike seems very damaging. They're attacking the very nature of the auto companies and saying they don't even have the right to make money or try to profit, and demanding huge wage increases and further union expansion to include the battery plant. Meanwhile the companies are losing 30k+ per EV sold and are only about 10% of Tesla's size, and Tesla has something like an 18% profit margin even after price reductions. The unions might win locally but put the companies out of business in five or ten years by slowing them down. So, this structure of a single union led by a guy who's already independently wealthy and old and for whom the long term survival of the union doesn't matter monetarily, and the fact that the companies simply have to deal with him, and for electoral reasons both Biden and Trump showed up on the picket lines... I would quit if I were an exec there. Feels like they'll be driven out of business and bailed out either publicly or secretly within ten years. Market tracking this: https://manifold.markets/Ernie/will-ford-gm-or-stellantis-be-baile?r=RXJuaWU https://manifold.markets/Ernie/will-ford-gm-or-stellantis-be...

bmicraft 3y ago

> In a well-run truly free economy Either the economy is truly free, or it is "well-run" aka state managed. Pick one. It can only be truly free without any state intervention.