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That’s just the classic anti public sector service line in general. Whatever your feelings are about single payer healthcare, it’s incredibly disingenuous when

That’s just the classic anti public sector service line in general. Whatever your feelings are about single payer healthcare, it’s incredibly disingenuous when politicians debate against it by bringing up the cost of such a system, without comparing it to the current cost of the private system it would replace.

gumby 3y ago
A key factor is that insurance companies are a big sector, and are in everybody’s pension funds. This is one of the reason that the oil companies get subsidies (“green hydrogen” which makes no scientific sense) in the anti-climate-change legislation. Intuit and HR Block are too small to present that level of opposition.
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
  The gain per person from having non profit single payer would probably still be higher than having that sector nuked from your portfolio unless you owned like millions in shares. And if you did own millions of shares, you’d probably be privy enough to see the writing on the wall and buy into a tech company instead with that money ahead of the collapse and public takeover.
  - gumby 3y ago
    I agree with your reasoning, but don’t think it would play out that way. If a big sector from the S&P sank it would drive an apparent large secular reduction in the overall market, and in particular in the index funds. And opponents would seize upon it and beat the drums. Most of the financial news is incoherent and lazy — this would be just another example.
justinzollars 3y ago
Government size as a proportion of GDP is at 42.36% [1]. How much bigger should it get? 1. https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/GBR/SWE/ESP/ITA/ZAF/IND https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/...
- comte7092 3y ago
  However big it makes sense to be? I don’t get how “big” became a persuasive argument when it comes to the public sector, rather than “ineffective” or “inefficient”. Raw “size” isn’t a good target on its own. At the end of the day all I care about is that things are done effectively and efficiently, and sometimes maybe we trade those things off so that they can be provided fairly and equitably (such as fire departments, I don’t care if a private sector solution would be more cost effective, I don’t want private companies selectively putting out fires).
- ajcp 3y ago
  39.41% according to your own source. It was ~32% pre-pandemic, and excepting for the Great Recession, looked to be stable at ~30%. Considering the governments revenue over that same period, again according to your own source, is also ~30% we're at less than 1/3 of GDP expenditure. I think that is a reasonable public expenditure for a representative government, especially for the third most populous country on the planet and the largest GDP.
- gumby 3y ago
  That is a meaningless metric on its own. What matters is how much money you have left to spend on things you want to as part of a healthy, happy life. In the US a lot of things are inefficiently pushed into the private sector, health care being a good example. Taxes + private health care costs in the US are a higher percentage of GDP in the US than in any developed nation yet the results are the worst of the same cohort (OECD). (This isn’t to say that there aren’t things done inefficiently in government that might be better in the private sector. Just saying that single figures are worthless alone).
- hooverd 3y ago
  Paradoxically, if the government did more it would spend less. All civil servants without in-house expertise know how to do is RFP and spend money.
_DeadFred_ 3y ago
Or when they just ignore that we already have socialized healthcare, just in the worst way possible, at the Emergency Room level only. So no preventative care just extremely expensive emergency care.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  Not just no preventative care, but no real care. Emergency rooms treat you to the point where you're stable. They aren't going to treat you to the point where you're healthy again.
- isykt 3y ago
  Most people don’t think in systems, they think in stories.
hooverd 3y ago
I hope the IRS is building in-house competency for this project. So much public sector inefficiency is because we farm out projects to the consultant industrial complex.
- comte7092 3y ago
  Agree 100%. That is an issue that I don’t think gets enough attention.

gumby 3y ago

A key factor is that insurance companies are a big sector, and are in everybody’s pension funds. This is one of the reason that the oil companies get subsidies (“green hydrogen” which makes no scientific sense) in the anti-climate-change legislation. Intuit and HR Block are too small to present that level of opposition.

kjkjadksj 3y ago
The gain per person from having non profit single payer would probably still be higher than having that sector nuked from your portfolio unless you owned like millions in shares. And if you did own millions of shares, you’d probably be privy enough to see the writing on the wall and buy into a tech company instead with that money ahead of the collapse and public takeover.
- gumby 3y ago
  I agree with your reasoning, but don’t think it would play out that way. If a big sector from the S&P sank it would drive an apparent large secular reduction in the overall market, and in particular in the index funds. And opponents would seize upon it and beat the drums. Most of the financial news is incoherent and lazy — this would be just another example.

justinzollars 3y ago

Government size as a proportion of GDP is at 42.36% [1]. How much bigger should it get? 1. https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/GBR/SWE/ESP/ITA/ZAF/IND https://www.imf.org/external/datamapper/exp@FPP/USA/FRA/JPN/...

comte7092 3y ago
However big it makes sense to be? I don’t get how “big” became a persuasive argument when it comes to the public sector, rather than “ineffective” or “inefficient”. Raw “size” isn’t a good target on its own. At the end of the day all I care about is that things are done effectively and efficiently, and sometimes maybe we trade those things off so that they can be provided fairly and equitably (such as fire departments, I don’t care if a private sector solution would be more cost effective, I don’t want private companies selectively putting out fires).
ajcp 3y ago
39.41% according to your own source. It was ~32% pre-pandemic, and excepting for the Great Recession, looked to be stable at ~30%. Considering the governments revenue over that same period, again according to your own source, is also ~30% we're at less than 1/3 of GDP expenditure. I think that is a reasonable public expenditure for a representative government, especially for the third most populous country on the planet and the largest GDP.
gumby 3y ago
That is a meaningless metric on its own. What matters is how much money you have left to spend on things you want to as part of a healthy, happy life. In the US a lot of things are inefficiently pushed into the private sector, health care being a good example. Taxes + private health care costs in the US are a higher percentage of GDP in the US than in any developed nation yet the results are the worst of the same cohort (OECD). (This isn’t to say that there aren’t things done inefficiently in government that might be better in the private sector. Just saying that single figures are worthless alone).
hooverd 3y ago
Paradoxically, if the government did more it would spend less. All civil servants without in-house expertise know how to do is RFP and spend money.

_DeadFred_ 3y ago

Or when they just ignore that we already have socialized healthcare, just in the worst way possible, at the Emergency Room level only. So no preventative care just extremely expensive emergency care.

JohnFen 3y ago
Not just no preventative care, but no real care. Emergency rooms treat you to the point where you're stable. They aren't going to treat you to the point where you're healthy again.
isykt 3y ago
Most people don’t think in systems, they think in stories.

hooverd 3y ago

I hope the IRS is building in-house competency for this project. So much public sector inefficiency is because we farm out projects to the consultant industrial complex.

comte7092 3y ago
Agree 100%. That is an issue that I don’t think gets enough attention.