2 ms·

> Teachers are unionized here and are one of the most powerful political forces. I cannot even imagine what sort of lens you'd have to be looking through to id

> Teachers are unionized here and are one of the most powerful political forces. I cannot even imagine what sort of lens you'd have to be looking through to identify teachers as "one of the most powerful political forces" in the United States. Certainly the awesome political power they wield hasn't helped to increase salaries (compare them to any other credentialed profession requiring a college degree), or prevent charter schools from eating away at public school funding, or to restore some of the pension benefits that were taken away in the eighties. [0] [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32542324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32542324 (I am delighted to report that the "Nobody wants to teach anymore" comments are up to 666 points exactly at this moment in time)

s1artibartfast 3y ago
At the same time, unions make it impossible to fire bad teachers Only a handful of teachers have been fired in the last 20 years in California
- justin66 3y ago
  That means the teacher unions, public schools, and/or lawmakers in CA kind of suck. (I lived there but I never had kids there, so I don't have any deep knowledge on the matter, except that #3 is really obviously true) It doesn't mean teachers are "one of the most powerful political forces" in the United States. It's like a tangent within a tangent so I guess there's not much more I'd say about that claim, other than... it's a really weird, obviously wrong thing to assert.
  - s1artibartfast 3y ago
    >Certainly the awesome political power they wield hasn't helped to increase salaries (compare them to any other credentialed profession requiring a college degree), or prevent charter schools from eating away at public school funding, or to restore some of the pension benefits that were taken away in the eighties. I cant speak for the nation at large, but this doesnt track with my experience in california. Public school funding has massively increased. It has gone from somewhere around 9K/student in 2012 to $24k/student in 2023. With an average class size of 29, that is $700k per class per year.[1] They are rightly scared of charter schools and private school vouchers. California teaching is a decent profession on average, but compensation is extremely seniority based, with senior teachers payed 2X new hires, while doing essentially the same job (~$50k vs $100k) .[2] this is an internal struggle that most US unions have. Based on US union law, there is one union while in Europe employees can shop between multiple. As a result, US unions suffer from a tyranny of the majority which will sacrifice minority member interests for that of the majority. I have a friend in a public utility union where the union fought against WFH for IT workers, simply because the field workers were jealous. https://edsource.org/2023/california-leaders-should-focus-on-getting-our-moneys-worth-from-public-schools/697501 https://edsource.org/2023/california-leaders-should-focus-on... https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/fr/sa/cefavgsalaries.asp https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/fr/sa/cefavgsalaries.asp

s1artibartfast 3y ago

At the same time, unions make it impossible to fire bad teachers Only a handful of teachers have been fired in the last 20 years in California

justin66 3y ago
That means the teacher unions, public schools, and/or lawmakers in CA kind of suck. (I lived there but I never had kids there, so I don't have any deep knowledge on the matter, except that #3 is really obviously true) It doesn't mean teachers are "one of the most powerful political forces" in the United States. It's like a tangent within a tangent so I guess there's not much more I'd say about that claim, other than... it's a really weird, obviously wrong thing to assert.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  >Certainly the awesome political power they wield hasn't helped to increase salaries (compare them to any other credentialed profession requiring a college degree), or prevent charter schools from eating away at public school funding, or to restore some of the pension benefits that were taken away in the eighties. I cant speak for the nation at large, but this doesnt track with my experience in california. Public school funding has massively increased. It has gone from somewhere around 9K/student in 2012 to $24k/student in 2023. With an average class size of 29, that is $700k per class per year.[1] They are rightly scared of charter schools and private school vouchers. California teaching is a decent profession on average, but compensation is extremely seniority based, with senior teachers payed 2X new hires, while doing essentially the same job (~$50k vs $100k) .[2] this is an internal struggle that most US unions have. Based on US union law, there is one union while in Europe employees can shop between multiple. As a result, US unions suffer from a tyranny of the majority which will sacrifice minority member interests for that of the majority. I have a friend in a public utility union where the union fought against WFH for IT workers, simply because the field workers were jealous. https://edsource.org/2023/california-leaders-should-focus-on-getting-our-moneys-worth-from-public-schools/697501 https://edsource.org/2023/california-leaders-should-focus-on... https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/fr/sa/cefavgsalaries.asp https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/fr/sa/cefavgsalaries.asp