11 ms·

I’ve noticed that post 2020 (“pandemic”), that socialization in industry has shifted. I think it has to do with remote work, or the change in employee-employer

by sargun 3y ago

I’ve noticed that post 2020 (“pandemic”), that socialization in industry has shifted. I think it has to do with remote work, or the change in employee-employer labor relations. I’ll admit, it’s hurt me a lot, and three years on, I feel like this is the new norm. One of my previous managers used to have a measure of relationship health: can you make arguments at work that piss each other off (due to contentiousness, not assholery), but then get a beer together after work, and just chill. This barometer has almost entirely disappeared, where I had this relationship with most of my coworkers to now just one.

jen20 3y ago
Surely the other way around is equally important?
SketchySeaBeast 3y ago
By that measure I guess I haven't had good work relationships since I worked in a kitchen in the early 00's, and I'm OK with that.
notnaut 3y ago
I worked remote for a few years before the pandemic and the sense of isolation was definitely pervasive. But that’s not because of remote work or remote relationships alone having some inherent isolating quality. Several of my closest friends are people that I only interacted with online for several years before we ever met in person. No isolation there. Many Businesses just aren’t really trying to make that kind of thing work long term. All effort at this point appears to be geared towards the eventual ‘return to normal’ which will probably go away once far more invasive monitoring tools are the new norm!
programmertote 3y ago
I'm on the opposite spectrum. I don't like socializing with my coworkers. I keep a respectful and professionally-friendly relationship with them. I have college friends (not many, just 3 who I call close), and a family. That and life's chores/errands are enough to keep me busy when off work. To me, relying on coworkers for companionship is not a sustainable approach because like it or not, we need to switch jobs every 2-4 years (esp. when you are junior or esp. when you are not working at a big tech company for a cushiony/chill role, which might be rare), and there is never enough time to build strong bond with anyone you work. This is also disregarding the office politics, bullcrap/hypocritical things that you see some of your coworkers do once in a while.
- automatic6131 3y ago
  >I have college friends (not many, just 3 who I call close), and a family. Plus people you share your hobbies with (if you have a social one). This is the way. I like who I work with, but I don't want to socialize with any of them, unless I'm being paid.
- tnel77 3y ago
  I don’t rely on my coworkers for companionship, but I work eight hours a day. Interacting with people that are “friends” is better to me than interacting with people that are cold and indifferent because they have no interest in being friendly with work colleagues. I don’t want your time after work. I just want to get along and crack a few jokes while the code deploys.
  - vsareto 3y ago
    You can have a lot going on at work that makes people turn to cold and indifferent because they want to get work done and deadlines met. Their mental effort is focused on that because that's the priority. Socializing can be a context switch. If the company continuously keeps the pressure on, they just continue on like that until switching jobs. It would be nice if we had more time to relax and socialize as a reward for getting work done early or at a higher quality but the reward for it is often more work, which will quickly turn people cynical. If you are cynical, socializing is very much a chore even though they know you didn't cause it. Essentially, there is a lot to focus on that prevents people from relaxing and socializing. But profits are up, so yay?
  - pseudalopex 3y ago
    They said professionally friendly. That is not cold and indifferent.
- sargun 3y ago
  Meh, I never went to college, and I'm not at all close to my family. My closest friends almost all came from people I worked with at one point or another. Many of them moved in 2020+ away from the SF Bay Area, which sucked. It's incredibly difficult, and isolating to bootstrap a social network these days.
jquast 3y ago
I don’t drink, I guess I score pretty poorly on your relationship scale. If you need to have a drink to get through the workday and get along with I’d rather work with anyone else.
- kfjsalfkj 3y ago
  "Get a beer" is just an expression meaning kick back and relax. Try not to get too outraged over it. Or if you must, substitute a non-alcoholic beer.
  - giraffe_lady 3y ago
    I think they have a roundabout point in that most people would probably automatically exclude them from this sort of who-are-my-work-friends evaluation, possibly without even realizing it.
    - Sirizarry 3y ago
      Nah I think they clearly hyper focused on the beer drinking aspect. My guess is that they consider not drinking a personality trait.
  - sargun 3y ago
    Yeah, often times, it wouldn't actually be getting a beer. It'd usually be going out and getting a coffee. For a while, I'd have coffee runs at 2 or 3 PM and take a walk with people.
cdchn 3y ago
"Being able to disagree with a coworker without either party getting pissed" is the litmus test I use.

by sargun 3y ago

jen20 3y ago

Surely the other way around is equally important?

SketchySeaBeast 3y ago

By that measure I guess I haven't had good work relationships since I worked in a kitchen in the early 00's, and I'm OK with that.

notnaut 3y ago

I worked remote for a few years before the pandemic and the sense of isolation was definitely pervasive. But that’s not because of remote work or remote relationships alone having some inherent isolating quality. Several of my closest friends are people that I only interacted with online for several years before we ever met in person. No isolation there. Many Businesses just aren’t really trying to make that kind of thing work long term. All effort at this point appears to be geared towards the eventual ‘return to normal’ which will probably go away once far more invasive monitoring tools are the new norm!

programmertote 3y ago

I'm on the opposite spectrum. I don't like socializing with my coworkers. I keep a respectful and professionally-friendly relationship with them. I have college friends (not many, just 3 who I call close), and a family. That and life's chores/errands are enough to keep me busy when off work. To me, relying on coworkers for companionship is not a sustainable approach because like it or not, we need to switch jobs every 2-4 years (esp. when you are junior or esp. when you are not working at a big tech company for a cushiony/chill role, which might be rare), and there is never enough time to build strong bond with anyone you work. This is also disregarding the office politics, bullcrap/hypocritical things that you see some of your coworkers do once in a while.

automatic6131 3y ago
>I have college friends (not many, just 3 who I call close), and a family. Plus people you share your hobbies with (if you have a social one). This is the way. I like who I work with, but I don't want to socialize with any of them, unless I'm being paid.
tnel77 3y ago
I don’t rely on my coworkers for companionship, but I work eight hours a day. Interacting with people that are “friends” is better to me than interacting with people that are cold and indifferent because they have no interest in being friendly with work colleagues. I don’t want your time after work. I just want to get along and crack a few jokes while the code deploys.
- vsareto 3y ago
  You can have a lot going on at work that makes people turn to cold and indifferent because they want to get work done and deadlines met. Their mental effort is focused on that because that's the priority. Socializing can be a context switch. If the company continuously keeps the pressure on, they just continue on like that until switching jobs. It would be nice if we had more time to relax and socialize as a reward for getting work done early or at a higher quality but the reward for it is often more work, which will quickly turn people cynical. If you are cynical, socializing is very much a chore even though they know you didn't cause it. Essentially, there is a lot to focus on that prevents people from relaxing and socializing. But profits are up, so yay?
- pseudalopex 3y ago
  They said professionally friendly. That is not cold and indifferent.
sargun 3y ago
Meh, I never went to college, and I'm not at all close to my family. My closest friends almost all came from people I worked with at one point or another. Many of them moved in 2020+ away from the SF Bay Area, which sucked. It's incredibly difficult, and isolating to bootstrap a social network these days.

jquast 3y ago

I don’t drink, I guess I score pretty poorly on your relationship scale. If you need to have a drink to get through the workday and get along with I’d rather work with anyone else.

kfjsalfkj 3y ago
"Get a beer" is just an expression meaning kick back and relax. Try not to get too outraged over it. Or if you must, substitute a non-alcoholic beer.
- giraffe_lady 3y ago
  I think they have a roundabout point in that most people would probably automatically exclude them from this sort of who-are-my-work-friends evaluation, possibly without even realizing it.
  - Sirizarry 3y ago
    Nah I think they clearly hyper focused on the beer drinking aspect. My guess is that they consider not drinking a personality trait.
- sargun 3y ago
  Yeah, often times, it wouldn't actually be getting a beer. It'd usually be going out and getting a coffee. For a while, I'd have coffee runs at 2 or 3 PM and take a walk with people.

cdchn 3y ago

"Being able to disagree with a coworker without either party getting pissed" is the litmus test I use.