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> claims to be libertarian > starts a billion dollar company that helps the government spy on people, become FBI informant Ironic.
by achenet 3y ago
> claims to be libertarian
> starts a billion dollar company that helps the government spy on people, become FBI informant
Ironic.
- tjrgergw 3y agoLibertarians are always guilty of such "ironies", some would even call them hypocrisies. It's almost like the veneer of well reasoned ideology is a front just wanting more power.
- gonzo41 3y agoI don't know why you're being down voted. This is spot on.
- doggerel 3y ago[flagged]
- derbOac 3y agoI think the issue is stereotyping. Replace "libertarian" with "republican" or "democrat" and reconsider the statement.
- coderaptor 3y agoIt’s called painting with too wide a brush. A lot of us are simply interested in promoting and continuing to evolve and understand that well-reasoned ideology. We feel its application can improve the human condition.
- goodpoint 3y agoHN is a discussion board connected to a venture capital platform and it attracts lot of libertarians and they don't like to be called out. The term "libertarian" changed a lot over time, from socialist libertarianism to far-right libertarianism. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_libertarian_thinkers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_libertarian_thinke... Here we are talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism and check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#Analysis_and_criticism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#Analysis_an...
- brvsft 3y agoIf it is being downvoted, it's at least partly because it's an unrealistic standard that is about as serious as the take that "socialists" shouldn't be allowed to use smartphones or other products of "capitalism."
- nvm0n2 3y agoIt's being downvoted because there is no inconsistency between publicly stated beliefs and actions. Look into it more closely.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- solarman5000 3y agoYou must be new to politics... There are bad apples in every party, the actions of one individual do not represent the whole party
- denton-scratch 3y ago> the actions of one individual do not represent the whole party The "bad apples" phrase is often (usually?) misused. The whole saying is: "One bad apple spoils the barrel". In general, it refers to corruption, and especially bent coppers. Here in the UK, we recently had the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police saying that the rash of rapists in the Met is just "a few bad apples". It's not just a question of taint; if you leave the "bad apples" in there, you'll end up with no good apples at all.
- wsc981 3y agoHypocrisy can be found in many groups. For example I've seen many leftists that claim to be pro-immigration, protest against asylum centra opening in their wealthy neighbourhoods. Or people that claim to be worried about climate change travel the world and protest against wind turbines near their neighbourhoods. Hypocrisy is not limited to certain groups, pretty much all people are hypocritical at times.
- gavinhoward 3y agoNot disagreeing with you. But you have reminded me to do a self-assessment, find all of the hypocrisy I can, and correct it.
- scott_w 3y agoIs that protesting immigration processing or immigration detention centres? I can see why a pro-immigration person can be against what looks like a prison going up in a leafy suburb. They may change their mind if what’s going up is simply a document processing centre that people visit when they need to.
- snovv_crash 3y agoYou are cherry picking the one (weaker) example by badly interpreting it and trying to extend that to the others. All groups have hypocrisy where people push for others to aim for lofty goals, but fight tooth and nail to not have their local community pay the costs. Left, right, authoritarians, anarchists, etc.
- scott_w 3y agoI didn't provide the example.
- jimmydoe 3y agoLibertarian has been a loaded term, and what you are referring to is probably right-libertarianism which is the dorminant form in the US. Most folks already know that, but I just want to point it out since I personally identify as left libertarian.
- o_1 3y agoWhom it attracts doesn't define it. I think we could all postulate some interesting personalities for some other ideologies.
- doggerel 3y ago> claims to be libertarian > ruins press outlet that used too much free speech by burning them with lawsuits
- brvsft 3y agoI like that this thread is going to become a bunch of invective where people who aren't libertarians are going to claim libertarian hypocrisy on subjects like (a) outing someone as homosexual and (b) suing a media outlet for what was effectively revenge porn. Is it your honest opinion that all libertarians are supposed to be ethically okay with outing someone's sexuality or posting revenge porn tapes? If so, why?
- doggerel 3y agoAbout the lawsuits that he bankrolled that shut down a press outlet, he himself said: "I strongly believe in the First Amendment" [...] "I believe journalists are a privileged group in our society. They play an important role in getting us information and in the system of checks and balances. But these were not journalists." https://www.engadget.com/2016-10-31-peter-thiel-silicon-valley-billionaires-justice.html https://www.engadget.com/2016-10-31-peter-thiel-silicon-vall... It is my honest opinion that Thiel is a hypocrite and is a libertarian only if and when it's convenient to him. In this quote, he's letting himself off the hook for undermining the First Amendment protection of the press, which he also did covertly, btw, by claiming that his targets were not journalists when they were. I'm not saying they weren't scumbags for publishing what they did, but he doesn't get to have it both ways. That's the point.
- WanderPanda 3y agoDon‘t hate the player, hate the game!
- transcriptase 3y agoWhat's that line that people on one end of the political spectrum like to use? "Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences"?
- monero-xmr 3y agoI’m a libertarian and I believe in a “night watchmen state” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night-watchman_state https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night-watchman_state Not all libertarians are anarchists, that is a faction but not the majority IMO. I would overhaul the law enforcement apparatus in my ideal society. But their current existence would not prevent me from providing information to them and asking for assistance if the reason was justified. People calling Peter Thiel a hypocrite are wrong.
- BiteCode_dev 3y agoAnd those whatchmen, you think they are more "justice league" or "the boyz"? Because history has proven our people in power seldom demonstrate benevolence nor competence to solve the average citizens problems.
- monero-xmr 3y agoI cannot solve the problem of nuclear weapons without a formal state with a military, and war in general. So we can argue about how best to organize it but the state must exist and is legitimate IMO.
- WanderPanda 3y agoAgreed but that is a very shallow set of requirements compared to what we have now
- o_1 3y agoGovernment always serves the ruling class. The point of libertarianism is to eliminate the abuse of government so the capabilities of the individual can progress freely. Libertarian ideology assumes government to have a worse case scenario impact. Blissful ignorance of an over-watch is not worse case.
- macNchz 3y agoPalantir is like the dream tool for an authoritarian police state.
- goodmunky 3y agoAnd that’s exactly the “thought” that hit piece was designed to introduce.
- k8svet 3y agoI'm sorry... what? Thiel's political opinions, alignments and investments are not remotely a secret. And having actually read the article, it seems pretty preposterous to imply it was a hit piece. If anything, this makes me feel like maybe Thiel is more complicated or nuanced than I'd previously thought him.
- HumblyTossed 3y ago> Thiel is more complicated or nuanced Or maybe, simply, just more impulsive.
- HumblyTossed 3y agoHa! As if anyone would even need to do a hit piece on Thiel.
- FireBeyond 3y ago"There you go, bringing my words and actions into the debate!"
- randomdata 3y agoLibertarians stand firm behind the rule of law, and a “free market” solution to help with that is in line with such values.
- lostlogin 3y ago100%. When stuff looked a bit iffy, he bought citizenship in New Zealand as a bolt hole. The free market dictates that such things are possible. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-got-new-zealand-citizenship/ https://www.nzherald.co.nz/indepth/national/how-peter-thiel-...
- nvm0n2 3y agoLibertarianism isn't the same as anarchism. Libertarians want there to be law enforcement and a defense industry, and they want the private sector to play a role in that when possible, but not to fully replace the government's role. The state having a monopoly on violence is a key part of libertarian thinking, in fact. So there's no hypocrisy here. However, the Insider article is clearly designed as an attack piece on Thiel, and is probably written by people who don't understand what libertarianism is - a very common issue with those who attack it.
- lostlogin 3y ago> The state having a monopoly on violence is a key part of libertarian thinking, in fact. Don’t libertarians usually want less gun control?
- nvm0n2 3y agoAmerican libertarians do, not those everywhere. In the US they square it by saying that guns are a bulwark against the state going rogue and turning its own weapons on its citizens, but that in normal times (outside of civil war) guns are only meant for things like self defense in cases where the police can't get there in time, or hunting. I think if you want to argue hypocrisy that's still a better place to start than with being an FBI informant, but the article isn't about gun control.
- lostlogin 3y agoThanks - and obviously it’s a hot topic. I wasn’t looking to go down that track so much as query the ‘monopoly on violence’ thing. I didn’t know this was a libertarian view, and assumed a broad ‘self-defence’ belief.
- justincredible 3y ago[dead]
- Ancapistani 3y ago> Libertarianism isn't the same as anarchism. I agree, but have a clarification I'd like to make: many forms of anarchism are in a superset of libertarianism.
- dmix 3y agoBeing libertarian leaning is not being an anarchist. A core part of being a libertarian is a strong judicial system and only the fringiest of an already fringe are against police, such as the sovereign citizen types. FBI does counter intelligence as its primary mission anyway (as opposed to just law enforcement) and Thiel seems to be concerned with China, not using the gov as a weapon against citizens domestically.
- zardo 3y ago> A core part of being a libertarian is a strong judicial system and only the fringiest of an already fringe are against police, such as the sovereign citizen types. Does that make taxation a core part of being a libertarian as well? To pay for vital government services?
- randomdata 3y agoYes, taxation is a core part of being a libertarian. Generally, libertarians believe in taxation only for essential government services, but policing is definitely considered essential to libertarians. It is central to the ideology. Colloquially, anarcho-capitalism is sometimes also referred to as libertarianism. Those who subscribe to anarcho-capitalism believe in stateless societies, of which taxation would be incompatible. However, Thiel purports to be a libertarian in the stricter sense. This usage is not applicable here.
- wankerrific 3y agoThey’re all “libertarian” until their favorite bank goes belly up and needs a bail out.
- ekianjo 3y ago> starts a billion dollar company that helps the government spy on people, become FBI informant That's not necessarily antithetic. Although you could make the rationale that doing such a company reinforces the power of the government, and therefore creates a bigger government which would be against libertarian ideals
- FFP999 3y ago[dead]
- zeroCalories 3y agoEveryone that knows anything about Peter Thiel knows that he's not a libertarian. In his book and various interviews he makes it clear that he is heavily influenced by post-enlightenment thinkers. He's even explicitly said he does not believe freedom and democracy can co-exist, and that we need silicon valley in the defense industry to help combat the enemies of america.