5 ms·

Is Canada becoming a digital ghetto?

31 points by ksvs 18y ago

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]
lowkey 18y ago
Yes, in Canada our government doesn't believe in open access or competition, not unless it benefits the incumbent carriers. Innovation in Canada is a bad word as we believe that the big carriers (Rogers, Bell, Telus, etc.) must be protected at all costs. The carriers win and innovation loses. Don't even get me started on how startups are treated outside of the small but passionate startup communities.
- electromagnetic 18y ago
  It doesn't help that Bell has sent us 3 disconnection notices, stating that if the bill for (IIRC one said) August 23rd (which has to be paid at the latest by September 23rd or they'll send out a disconnection notice) isn't paid by August 18th we'll be disconnected. Bell is run by inbred morons. They don't even know how to bill someone, they sent out disconnection notices to everyone we know who is with them. We're currently waiting to be switched over to Cogeco Cable, because we might actually get decent phone and internet service. For a month we had crappy internet and Bell wouldn't send out a technician. I'm from the UK and when we've had problems, there's a guy out before anyone calls because they're afraid of OfCom punishing them. Here they fucking run themselves, we were told by Bell that the problem was in our house and that we'd have to pay $70 fee to fix it (this is before they even came out), this is even though we pay $10 a month so that we don't need to pay $70 when there's a problem in the house yet Mr Speaks No English can't read that on his computer screen. Here's the punch line, when the Technician came out he said it wasn't a problem in our house. He walked to the connection box and came back, "I think I found your problem, there's a cooked rat in there. I'll switch you over to a different line." I asked about the connection speed, because it outright sucks and he said "Well I'm not supposed to do this, but I'll put your download speed as high as I can and I'll max out the upload." It's still only 1.5 meg down (we're paying for 3) and it's god damn 1 meg upload. I love Canada, but I have to say I've moved to a fucking third world country in terms of technology. Bell is advertising it's NEW DVR service for like $200, I had a DVR like 6 years ago provided for free by Sky when we resubscribed.
k4st 18y ago
Does that mean that the U.S. is already a digital ghetto?
- potatolicious 18y ago
  Hah. You wish. I just spent 4 months living in Seattle, and here's how the cell service stacks up. In both places I paid $50 a month (give or take a few bucks). In the US: - 300 minutes daytime - unlimited evenings/weekends - voicemail, call display, etc - unlimited data In Canada: - 200 minutes daytime - unlimited evenings/weekends Notice the big difference? :P America is behind the curve on technology infrastructure, but it's still a lot better off than Canada.
  - elai 18y ago
    I pay $30 a month in canada for that canadian plan + voicemail and caller id. You have to get retention plans for that although. Data is the killer. And I think the infrastructre here is just as good, it's just they want to make more profit, and because of the duopoly situation, they can.
  - Maascamp 18y ago
    How about the fact that all American plans come with free national long distance. That's unheard of in Canada. You get billed long distance for calling a city an hour away.
  - TheBosch 18y ago
    Here's the deal I've currently arranged with Telus. This is after much haggling as well as the fact I've been a customer for 3 years already. The deals OK, but nothing like in the states. The thing that really pisses me off is the system access fee! 19.3 - 200 daytime mintues, unlimited evenings @ 5pm & unlimited weekends // $7 - 2500 text // $25 - unlimited data // $15 - unlimited long distance (Canada + US) // free - unlimited incomning // free - vm3 / call display Plan Total: $66.3 Plus: $7.5 - System access fee // $.5 - 911 fee // $3.72- Tax Grand Total: $77.30
    - 18y ago
delano 18y ago
Ya, there's some stuff that sucks in regards to digital media in Canada but it's not like everything is ruined once a bill is passed. If a new C-61 makes it through, it will suck for a few years until people get annoyed and it will be overturned or amended.
dpatru 18y ago
This should be a warning to those who are clamoring for "net neutrality". Government regulation tends to be justified by claiming it helps the little guy. It inevitably ends up being protection for the big guy. Problems should be viewed as opportunities to make money, not as excuses to grow government. High prices should entice competitors into the Canadian marketplace. My guess is that the very government regulations designed to protect consumers now function to keep out these competitors who could offer better services at lower prices.
- mikedouglas 18y ago
  Did you even click the link? Which of the examples listed in the article was due to bad regulation? A "net neutrality" bill would've forced the CRTC to rule in favor of the small ISPs, the copyright modernization act is being pushed by the Conservative party, and opposed by every "big government" party, and the SMS scandal is a failure to challenge price gouging. I love that, without any knowledge of Canadian telecom regulation, you're ready to announce that over-regulation is the problem. Way to go, brownie.
  - dpatru 18y ago
    The problem is this: if the Canadian telecom market were open to competition, why doesn't a new competitor move in and clobber the existing phone companies in the market? I read the article and in two of the three complaints, the writer is angry because government doesn't fix the problems he sees in the marketplace. The government won't force Bell to give small ISPs unlimited bandwidth and the government is allowing SMS "price gouging". (The writer's other complaint is that the government wants to modernize copyright, I assume that means that government wants to extend the existing copyright laws to the internet.) The writer implies that outside competition is not a viable solution and that consumer wellbeing is solely a function of government whim. Assuming the writer knows what he's (not) talking about, i.e., that outside competition is not an option, then I can only assume that the reason it's not an option is because of the existing regulatory environment. The writer's proposed solution seems to me to be calling for yet more regulation. So it appears that in Canada government is keeping competition out and not doing enough to force existing companies to increase their quality of service and decrease their prices. Excuse me for assuming that over-regulation is the problem. Now I see that Canada needs more regulation. Government there is not doing enough to tell businesses what they need to do, what kind of contracts they can make, and what prices they can charge. Of course this would also make Canada more open to competition. Businesses just love to do business in a place where government bureaucrats help them with lots of detailed rules that require teams of lawyers to figure out. Businesses, especially startups, also like it when government forces them to rewrite contracts and charge lower prices. Thanks for setting me straight.
juliend2 18y ago
Here in Québec, Microsoft has the monopoly in the public sphere. The government does not do any bid invitations when it comes to buying computers. The open source is completely ignored.
josefresco 18y ago
Telcos are screwing .... everyone. News at 11.
TheBosch 18y ago
This article makes 3 very valid points about the way Canada is currently viewing the digital area in such a backwards way. There's other examples of CRTC negligence such as when they mandated the creation of a "Canadian" HBO since for some reason we couldn't get the stream directly from the US. In the States they also have fiber installations going directly into the houses and I haven't even heard of anything like that here in Canada. ADSL has a "Max" package of 6mbps which is laughable, while the cable operator (Shaw) has one that's 25mbps however they charge $100/month! And that's just for Internet! This is the biggest annoyance to me personally as Canada used to be a leader in broadband availability but we've stayed with the same speed structure for the last 5+ years and are falling faster and faster behind the leading nations. With the new frequencies available for wireless bandwidth hopefully we'll see some new competition in the cell phone sector as it's desperately needed!
locacorten 18y ago
In my opinion, what is wrong with Canada is Canadians. Nobody cares. The government, the companies, the unions, everybody is f*-ing up that country, yet, people could care less. It's even worse, ask any Canadian, and chances are they would tell you what a great country Canada is and how Canada has it so much better than the US. Last year, 77% of Canadians ranked Canada as 10 out of 10 as the best country to live in. 77%!!! I doubt that even the brainwashed North Koreans would vote 77% for their country.

31 points by ksvs 18y ago

deleted 18y ago

[deleted]

Yes, in Canada our government doesn't believe in open access or competition, not unless it benefits the incumbent carriers. Innovation in Canada is a bad word as we believe that the big carriers (Rogers, Bell, Telus, etc.) must be protected at all costs. The carriers win and innovation loses. Don't even get me started on how startups are treated outside of the small but passionate startup communities.

electromagnetic 18y ago
It doesn't help that Bell has sent us 3 disconnection notices, stating that if the bill for (IIRC one said) August 23rd (which has to be paid at the latest by September 23rd or they'll send out a disconnection notice) isn't paid by August 18th we'll be disconnected. Bell is run by inbred morons. They don't even know how to bill someone, they sent out disconnection notices to everyone we know who is with them. We're currently waiting to be switched over to Cogeco Cable, because we might actually get decent phone and internet service. For a month we had crappy internet and Bell wouldn't send out a technician. I'm from the UK and when we've had problems, there's a guy out before anyone calls because they're afraid of OfCom punishing them. Here they fucking run themselves, we were told by Bell that the problem was in our house and that we'd have to pay $70 fee to fix it (this is before they even came out), this is even though we pay $10 a month so that we don't need to pay $70 when there's a problem in the house yet Mr Speaks No English can't read that on his computer screen. Here's the punch line, when the Technician came out he said it wasn't a problem in our house. He walked to the connection box and came back, "I think I found your problem, there's a cooked rat in there. I'll switch you over to a different line." I asked about the connection speed, because it outright sucks and he said "Well I'm not supposed to do this, but I'll put your download speed as high as I can and I'll max out the upload." It's still only 1.5 meg down (we're paying for 3) and it's god damn 1 meg upload. I love Canada, but I have to say I've moved to a fucking third world country in terms of technology. Bell is advertising it's NEW DVR service for like $200, I had a DVR like 6 years ago provided for free by Sky when we resubscribed.

k4st 18y ago

Does that mean that the U.S. is already a digital ghetto?

potatolicious 18y ago
Hah. You wish. I just spent 4 months living in Seattle, and here's how the cell service stacks up. In both places I paid $50 a month (give or take a few bucks). In the US: - 300 minutes daytime - unlimited evenings/weekends - voicemail, call display, etc - unlimited data In Canada: - 200 minutes daytime - unlimited evenings/weekends Notice the big difference? :P America is behind the curve on technology infrastructure, but it's still a lot better off than Canada.
- elai 18y ago
  I pay $30 a month in canada for that canadian plan + voicemail and caller id. You have to get retention plans for that although. Data is the killer. And I think the infrastructre here is just as good, it's just they want to make more profit, and because of the duopoly situation, they can.
- Maascamp 18y ago
  How about the fact that all American plans come with free national long distance. That's unheard of in Canada. You get billed long distance for calling a city an hour away.
- TheBosch 18y ago
  Here's the deal I've currently arranged with Telus. This is after much haggling as well as the fact I've been a customer for 3 years already. The deals OK, but nothing like in the states. The thing that really pisses me off is the system access fee! 19.3 - 200 daytime mintues, unlimited evenings @ 5pm & unlimited weekends // $7 - 2500 text // $25 - unlimited data // $15 - unlimited long distance (Canada + US) // free - unlimited incomning // free - vm3 / call display Plan Total: $66.3 Plus: $7.5 - System access fee // $.5 - 911 fee // $3.72- Tax Grand Total: $77.30
  - 18y ago

delano 18y ago

Ya, there's some stuff that sucks in regards to digital media in Canada but it's not like everything is ruined once a bill is passed. If a new C-61 makes it through, it will suck for a few years until people get annoyed and it will be overturned or amended.

dpatru 18y ago

This should be a warning to those who are clamoring for "net neutrality". Government regulation tends to be justified by claiming it helps the little guy. It inevitably ends up being protection for the big guy. Problems should be viewed as opportunities to make money, not as excuses to grow government. High prices should entice competitors into the Canadian marketplace. My guess is that the very government regulations designed to protect consumers now function to keep out these competitors who could offer better services at lower prices.

mikedouglas 18y ago
Did you even click the link? Which of the examples listed in the article was due to bad regulation? A "net neutrality" bill would've forced the CRTC to rule in favor of the small ISPs, the copyright modernization act is being pushed by the Conservative party, and opposed by every "big government" party, and the SMS scandal is a failure to challenge price gouging. I love that, without any knowledge of Canadian telecom regulation, you're ready to announce that over-regulation is the problem. Way to go, brownie.
- dpatru 18y ago
  The problem is this: if the Canadian telecom market were open to competition, why doesn't a new competitor move in and clobber the existing phone companies in the market? I read the article and in two of the three complaints, the writer is angry because government doesn't fix the problems he sees in the marketplace. The government won't force Bell to give small ISPs unlimited bandwidth and the government is allowing SMS "price gouging". (The writer's other complaint is that the government wants to modernize copyright, I assume that means that government wants to extend the existing copyright laws to the internet.) The writer implies that outside competition is not a viable solution and that consumer wellbeing is solely a function of government whim. Assuming the writer knows what he's (not) talking about, i.e., that outside competition is not an option, then I can only assume that the reason it's not an option is because of the existing regulatory environment. The writer's proposed solution seems to me to be calling for yet more regulation. So it appears that in Canada government is keeping competition out and not doing enough to force existing companies to increase their quality of service and decrease their prices. Excuse me for assuming that over-regulation is the problem. Now I see that Canada needs more regulation. Government there is not doing enough to tell businesses what they need to do, what kind of contracts they can make, and what prices they can charge. Of course this would also make Canada more open to competition. Businesses just love to do business in a place where government bureaucrats help them with lots of detailed rules that require teams of lawyers to figure out. Businesses, especially startups, also like it when government forces them to rewrite contracts and charge lower prices. Thanks for setting me straight.

juliend2 18y ago

Here in Québec, Microsoft has the monopoly in the public sphere. The government does not do any bid invitations when it comes to buying computers. The open source is completely ignored.

josefresco 18y ago

Telcos are screwing .... everyone. News at 11.

TheBosch 18y ago

This article makes 3 very valid points about the way Canada is currently viewing the digital area in such a backwards way. There's other examples of CRTC negligence such as when they mandated the creation of a "Canadian" HBO since for some reason we couldn't get the stream directly from the US. In the States they also have fiber installations going directly into the houses and I haven't even heard of anything like that here in Canada. ADSL has a "Max" package of 6mbps which is laughable, while the cable operator (Shaw) has one that's 25mbps however they charge $100/month! And that's just for Internet! This is the biggest annoyance to me personally as Canada used to be a leader in broadband availability but we've stayed with the same speed structure for the last 5+ years and are falling faster and faster behind the leading nations. With the new frequencies available for wireless bandwidth hopefully we'll see some new competition in the cell phone sector as it's desperately needed!

locacorten 18y ago

In my opinion, what is wrong with Canada is Canadians. Nobody cares. The government, the companies, the unions, everybody is f*-ing up that country, yet, people could care less. It's even worse, ask any Canadian, and chances are they would tell you what a great country Canada is and how Canada has it so much better than the US. Last year, 77% of Canadians ranked Canada as 10 out of 10 as the best country to live in. 77%!!! I doubt that even the brainwashed North Koreans would vote 77% for their country.