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It can be pretty easy. When I started my professional life in the US, taxes were relatively simple because I basically had two sources of income (job and intere

It can be pretty easy. When I started my professional life in the US, taxes were relatively simple because I basically had two sources of income (job and interest investments). You enter 2 forms, ignore a lot of prompts in the tax software (do you do X? Do you do Y?) and go for it. You can even file your taxes for free - in theory - if you have a simple life like that. A lot of taxpayers do. The problem that makes things a lot more complicated is that the US has many little mechanisms for reducing your tax liability that are very tempting to use (and oftentimes inevitable): 401k, HSAs, mortgage interest deduction, 529 accounts, long term capital gains, capital loss offsets etc. HN readers tend to be more educated than average and have a higher income than average. Also, a lot of math-inclined, optimizer types here who will absolutely want to take advantage of these features in the tax code. When you start adding every little way to pay less taxes, or start doing more interesting things in your life such as setting up a small business or buying property, tax preparation can become a nightmare.

maccard 3y ago
> taxes were relatively simple because I basically had two sources of income (job and interest investments). You enter 2 forms, ignore a lot of prompts in the tax software (do you do X? Do you do Y?) and go for it. You can even file your taxes for free - in theory - if you have a simple life like that. A lot of taxpayers do. That's way too complicated. In the UK, for the vast vast majority of people, there are no forms. if you meet the criteria in this quiz [0] (self employed top 5% of earners, or other large incomes), you get a pre-filled-in form that you enter extra numbers into. For the vast vast majority of people, you never see this form, and most people who fill in this form just click through it. [0] https://www.gov.uk/check-if-you-need-tax-return https://www.gov.uk/check-if-you-need-tax-return
- glimshe 3y ago
  You can call it relatively complicated, but it was not complicated in the absolute sense. Perhaps tedious and busy work-ey. The process was basically typing 10-15 numbers that I read from 2 forms sent to me by mail rather than thinking/reasoning. Don't get me wrong, it would be a lot better to not do it like you describe, but as far as bureaucracy is concerned, I'll take this over all the other bureaucracy you have to deal with in Europe. It's the one time in the year that I feel I have to actively deal with the government in the US, at least in the state I live.
  - maccard 3y ago
    > ll take this over all the other bureaucracy you have to deal with in Europe I'm a bit surprised to hear this - what do you mean here? My experience is that bureaucracy is rife in the US.
tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago
And the government is unaware of those or? Where I live the banks reports stuff such as mortage interest payment, capital gains etc, it's time for taxes it's all filled out already and I click OK or text the tax authority to confirm.
- wildrhythms 3y ago
  The policymakers in U.S. government have been bribed for decades by the likes of Intuit and H&R Block to not simplify the tax filing system. https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...
- glimshe 3y ago
  It could absolutely be done as you describe for most people. Most will need around 1-2 hours of tedious work per year versus 1-2 minutes as it should be. All I'm saying is that the current system isn't that difficult for most scenarios, simply annoying busy work and form filling that should be done automatically by the government. When people talk about the US system, it sounds like most people would need a tax professional for doing taxes when that's not really the case.

maccard 3y ago

> taxes were relatively simple because I basically had two sources of income (job and interest investments). You enter 2 forms, ignore a lot of prompts in the tax software (do you do X? Do you do Y?) and go for it. You can even file your taxes for free - in theory - if you have a simple life like that. A lot of taxpayers do. That's way too complicated. In the UK, for the vast vast majority of people, there are no forms. if you meet the criteria in this quiz [0] (self employed top 5% of earners, or other large incomes), you get a pre-filled-in form that you enter extra numbers into. For the vast vast majority of people, you never see this form, and most people who fill in this form just click through it. [0] https://www.gov.uk/check-if-you-need-tax-return https://www.gov.uk/check-if-you-need-tax-return

glimshe 3y ago
You can call it relatively complicated, but it was not complicated in the absolute sense. Perhaps tedious and busy work-ey. The process was basically typing 10-15 numbers that I read from 2 forms sent to me by mail rather than thinking/reasoning. Don't get me wrong, it would be a lot better to not do it like you describe, but as far as bureaucracy is concerned, I'll take this over all the other bureaucracy you have to deal with in Europe. It's the one time in the year that I feel I have to actively deal with the government in the US, at least in the state I live.
- maccard 3y ago
  > ll take this over all the other bureaucracy you have to deal with in Europe I'm a bit surprised to hear this - what do you mean here? My experience is that bureaucracy is rife in the US.

tuwtuwtuwtuw 3y ago

And the government is unaware of those or? Where I live the banks reports stuff such as mortage interest payment, capital gains etc, it's time for taxes it's all filled out already and I click OK or text the tax authority to confirm.

wildrhythms 3y ago
The policymakers in U.S. government have been bribed for decades by the likes of Intuit and H&R Block to not simplify the tax filing system. https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-fight-to-stop-americans-from-filing-their-taxes-for-free https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-turbotax-20-year-f...
glimshe 3y ago
It could absolutely be done as you describe for most people. Most will need around 1-2 hours of tedious work per year versus 1-2 minutes as it should be. All I'm saying is that the current system isn't that difficult for most scenarios, simply annoying busy work and form filling that should be done automatically by the government. When people talk about the US system, it sounds like most people would need a tax professional for doing taxes when that's not really the case.