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> Teachers are unionized here and are one of the most powerful political forces. This does not seem compatible with all the stories I've heard about underpaid

> Teachers are unionized here and are one of the most powerful political forces. This does not seem compatible with all the stories I've heard about underpaid teachers having to buy material for their students out of their own pocket. I'm sure it somehow ends up both being true in a twisted way, but it still sounds strange.

username332211 3y ago
If you think about it, American teachers are the most obvious example of why unionization doesn't necessarily improve anything at all. An average class of 24 costs just short of $700k per year to the citizens of New York City and the cost is rising rapidly every year. Meanwhile, teachers are supposed to be underpaid, overworked and exploited. I guess teachers are supposed to take solace in the fact they are very powerful.
- femiagbabiaka 3y ago
  No, it shows how little real power they have, and how dire the situation would be in the absence of a union.
  - AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
    [dead]
- vanderZwan 3y ago
  That is an absurd conclusion to draw without looking at the details of what the various organizations and institutions actually structurally do in practice. It's not like the whole system is a magical black box that just does what it does and there is no way of knowing what is going on.
- NoGravitas 3y ago
  In many states, the "teachers' union" isn't really a union at all — it lobbies, but it can neither collectively bargain nor strike.
willcipriano 3y ago
"Buying things out of pocket" was such a smart tactic from the union. Have each teacher buy a box of pencils for a few dollars and complain loudly so people think you are spending much more.
- gruez 3y ago
  If that's the case why don't we see school boards have expense policies to shut them up?
  - willcipriano 3y ago
    Why dosent the union have its members just refuse to buy anything?
    - kbelder 3y ago
      You're misunderstanding. The union likes having the teachers buying supplies. It makes them sympathetic victims.
  - mattmcknight 3y ago
    They do in many cases, it doesn't help because it's such an easy PR story. They just ask for more. The objective can never be "stop this group from wanting more money" because human desire is infinite.
    - saltminer 3y ago
      So when one of my high school teachers had a projector bulb die but they couldn't afford any more bulbs that year, she should've just bought one and submitted it to the county for reimbursement? Or when I repaired their laptop carts with duct tape and prayers, they should've just expensed new ones? That's incredible, I can't believe they were all were so stupid! /s
      - mattmcknight 3y ago
tomcam 3y ago
I think the answer lies in the massively increased administrative presence over the last few decades.

username332211 3y ago

If you think about it, American teachers are the most obvious example of why unionization doesn't necessarily improve anything at all. An average class of 24 costs just short of $700k per year to the citizens of New York City and the cost is rising rapidly every year. Meanwhile, teachers are supposed to be underpaid, overworked and exploited. I guess teachers are supposed to take solace in the fact they are very powerful.

femiagbabiaka 3y ago
No, it shows how little real power they have, and how dire the situation would be in the absence of a union.
- AlgorithmicTime 3y ago
  [dead]
vanderZwan 3y ago
That is an absurd conclusion to draw without looking at the details of what the various organizations and institutions actually structurally do in practice. It's not like the whole system is a magical black box that just does what it does and there is no way of knowing what is going on.
NoGravitas 3y ago
In many states, the "teachers' union" isn't really a union at all — it lobbies, but it can neither collectively bargain nor strike.

willcipriano 3y ago

"Buying things out of pocket" was such a smart tactic from the union. Have each teacher buy a box of pencils for a few dollars and complain loudly so people think you are spending much more.

gruez 3y ago
If that's the case why don't we see school boards have expense policies to shut them up?
- willcipriano 3y ago
  Why dosent the union have its members just refuse to buy anything?
  - kbelder 3y ago
    You're misunderstanding. The union likes having the teachers buying supplies. It makes them sympathetic victims.
- mattmcknight 3y ago
  They do in many cases, it doesn't help because it's such an easy PR story. They just ask for more. The objective can never be "stop this group from wanting more money" because human desire is infinite.
  - saltminer 3y ago
    So when one of my high school teachers had a projector bulb die but they couldn't afford any more bulbs that year, she should've just bought one and submitted it to the county for reimbursement? Or when I repaired their laptop carts with duct tape and prayers, they should've just expensed new ones? That's incredible, I can't believe they were all were so stupid! /s
    - mattmcknight 3y ago

tomcam 3y ago

I think the answer lies in the massively increased administrative presence over the last few decades.