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In the UK, many IT roles can join the Communication Workers Union[0] [0]: https://www.cwu.org/ https://www.cwu.org/

rwmj 3y ago
Or Prospect https://prospect.org.uk/ https://prospect.org.uk/, a non-aligned (they don't give money to political parties) union of "scientists, engineers, tech experts and in other specialist roles".
varispeed 3y ago
Thanks to updated IR35 employers can bypass unions altogether. As IT deemed employees don't get any employment rights.
- youngtaff 3y ago
  Umbrella companies are going to be in for a rude awakening sooner or later As someone who's outside IR35 I can't see the point in being inside rather than just taking a full time role with a company, sure there's some flexibility but the disadvantages outweigh the advantages in my view
  - varispeed 3y ago
    There's a common misunderstanding regarding umbrella companies and their relation to IR35 legislation. Contrary to some beliefs, umbrella companies aren't subject to IR35. This regulation is designed for individuals who offer their services through an intermediary which they either manage or hold a financial stake in. However, when you're employed through an umbrella company or a large consultancy, you're considered an employee of that entity, thus IR35 doesn't apply in this context. Therefore, there's no impending "rude awakening" for umbrella companies concerning IR35. The challenge in regulating umbrella companies lies in the similarity of their business structures to those of large consultancies. They operate nearly identically, and differentiating between the two would require an additional, layer of regulation that could potentially face legal objections. IR35 itself is more about preventing professionals from departing large consultancies, establishing direct client engagements, and consequently, fostering competition. Ultimately, many small enterprises begin with the business owners personally providing services until they expand sufficiently to employ additional staff. However, IR35 essentially nips that in the bud and ensures the talent stays in the employment pool, corporations can exploit.
    - youngtaff 3y ago
      Apart from agreeing the IR35 applies to people who sell their services through a PSC I have a very different take on to that… IR35 is about making up the loss in revenue of employers National Insurance, as PSC shareholders can avoid NI by paying themselves mainly in dividends rather than a salary. The dividend tax makes up for the lack of employees NI on dividends but there’s no employers equivalent. Large companies use umbrella’s because they don’t want to take on the burden of employing contractors but depending on how the relationship is setup is the umbrella becomes the contractor’s employers (assuming engaged direct rather than through their PSC) and that means the contractor has a whole set of employment rights — sick, holiday, pension that the umbrella is now responsible for
- mellosouls 3y ago
  What's the issue if it only applies to contractors? I'm very pro-union btw but my understanding is that IR35 doesn't apply to FTEs, so no need for full union rights - at least in the case of short-term contractors (who choose money and flexibility over security). Agency temps (on equivalent or lower pay than FTEs) are a different matter and may need protection. Long term contractors are disguised FTEs so their choice again, probably not normally an issue. But perhaps I'm misunderstanding the law or the point?
  - varispeed 3y ago
    The IR35 has been changed so that now client / deemed employer can decides if employment rights can be afforded. Whether to hire someone as an employee, on FTE or in-scope IR35 is a business decision. If businesses wanted everyone could be hired as a "contractor" without employment rights from tomorrow. It's not like workers have a choice now, apart from looking for a job elsewhere.
dontlaugh 3y ago
More specifically, the UTAW branch https://utaw.tech https://utaw.tech There's also IWGB Game Workers for relevant workers https://www.gameworkers.co.uk/ https://www.gameworkers.co.uk/

rwmj 3y ago

Or Prospect https://prospect.org.uk/ https://prospect.org.uk/, a non-aligned (they don't give money to political parties) union of "scientists, engineers, tech experts and in other specialist roles".

varispeed 3y ago

Thanks to updated IR35 employers can bypass unions altogether. As IT deemed employees don't get any employment rights.

youngtaff 3y ago
Umbrella companies are going to be in for a rude awakening sooner or later As someone who's outside IR35 I can't see the point in being inside rather than just taking a full time role with a company, sure there's some flexibility but the disadvantages outweigh the advantages in my view
- varispeed 3y ago
  There's a common misunderstanding regarding umbrella companies and their relation to IR35 legislation. Contrary to some beliefs, umbrella companies aren't subject to IR35. This regulation is designed for individuals who offer their services through an intermediary which they either manage or hold a financial stake in. However, when you're employed through an umbrella company or a large consultancy, you're considered an employee of that entity, thus IR35 doesn't apply in this context. Therefore, there's no impending "rude awakening" for umbrella companies concerning IR35. The challenge in regulating umbrella companies lies in the similarity of their business structures to those of large consultancies. They operate nearly identically, and differentiating between the two would require an additional, layer of regulation that could potentially face legal objections. IR35 itself is more about preventing professionals from departing large consultancies, establishing direct client engagements, and consequently, fostering competition. Ultimately, many small enterprises begin with the business owners personally providing services until they expand sufficiently to employ additional staff. However, IR35 essentially nips that in the bud and ensures the talent stays in the employment pool, corporations can exploit.
  - youngtaff 3y ago
    Apart from agreeing the IR35 applies to people who sell their services through a PSC I have a very different take on to that… IR35 is about making up the loss in revenue of employers National Insurance, as PSC shareholders can avoid NI by paying themselves mainly in dividends rather than a salary. The dividend tax makes up for the lack of employees NI on dividends but there’s no employers equivalent. Large companies use umbrella’s because they don’t want to take on the burden of employing contractors but depending on how the relationship is setup is the umbrella becomes the contractor’s employers (assuming engaged direct rather than through their PSC) and that means the contractor has a whole set of employment rights — sick, holiday, pension that the umbrella is now responsible for
mellosouls 3y ago
What's the issue if it only applies to contractors? I'm very pro-union btw but my understanding is that IR35 doesn't apply to FTEs, so no need for full union rights - at least in the case of short-term contractors (who choose money and flexibility over security). Agency temps (on equivalent or lower pay than FTEs) are a different matter and may need protection. Long term contractors are disguised FTEs so their choice again, probably not normally an issue. But perhaps I'm misunderstanding the law or the point?
- varispeed 3y ago
  The IR35 has been changed so that now client / deemed employer can decides if employment rights can be afforded. Whether to hire someone as an employee, on FTE or in-scope IR35 is a business decision. If businesses wanted everyone could be hired as a "contractor" without employment rights from tomorrow. It's not like workers have a choice now, apart from looking for a job elsewhere.

dontlaugh 3y ago

More specifically, the UTAW branch https://utaw.tech https://utaw.tech There's also IWGB Game Workers for relevant workers https://www.gameworkers.co.uk/ https://www.gameworkers.co.uk/