5 ms·

It's much cheaper and freedom-maintaining if you just pirate. And paying sends the message of "I'm OK with DRM shittified media, abuse me more!" Stripping DRM

by pierat 3y ago

It's much cheaper and freedom-maintaining if you just pirate. And paying sends the message of "I'm OK with DRM shittified media, abuse me more!" Stripping DRM is also illegal under DMCA. Might as well just pirate and call it a day. Either way you mention leaves you illegal

southernplaces7 3y ago
Agreed that torrenting/pirating is practical and simple, but since both downloading pirated books and stripping their DRM are both illegal anyhow, why not learn the minor skills required? After all, somebody somewhere has to post those DRM-stripped books online, so it's at least useful to work on learning the actual trick of doing it instead of depending on others' efforts.
Qwertious 3y ago
Also, there's nothing strictly speaking preventing you from mailing $20 to the author of the book you pirated; it's just inconvenient.
- xbmcuser 3y ago
  I think all authors and other content producers should have sort of a tip jar where we can send them money without someone else taking a big cut. A lot of superfluous charges are put still put for money transfer today so even something like patreon can cost 8-10% of what they recieve. How can they charge such a large percentage on money transfer that is mostly bits.
  - Moru 3y ago
    I believe Ko-fi is not taking a cut but has it's own tip-jar.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    > How can they charge such a large percentage on money transfer that is mostly bits. Because they provide a platform (making content more visible), payment processing (which can be 3% or more for some payment methods), customer support etc. If content producers don't need any of that, they can always have a self-hosted website with their own donation button (or physical mailing address for checks and banknotes, cryptocurrency address etc). > I think all authors and other content producers should have sort of a tip jar That tip jar would cut out everybody else involved in the production of a book and in getting you to even find out about it existing. Every author has the option to self-publish and set their own price (including a "pay-as-you-wish" option), but on the other hand, if they prefer the (relatively) lower risk of going with a traditional publisher, you should also respect that decision and not sidestep that by unilaterally deciding that "oh, I'd prefer you would have made this DRM-free and pay-as-you-wish, here's a check for $20!".
    - __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
      The way to solve that is to have the "tip jar" be a smart contract which redistributes inbound money transparently. I don't have a problem with funding the supporting parties, I just don't want the pie to be divvied up behind closed doors where my decision to contribute might end up working against my interests. If somebody puts together a different tip jar which supports and even wider variety of people, or does so in a more equitable way, I want to be free to choose that one instead. Let content compete for legitimacy based on how integrated into the wider community it's associated tip jar is.
      - lxgr 3y ago
        But what if that’s the way the author has decided to do things? Not everybody wants a tip jar. Why should you get to impose your views over that of the author who’s book you want to read?
        __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
        Because I'm the one reading it. I don't care if they think I should read it in a couch or a hammock or a bathtub, why should I care whether they think I should print it on a page or project it on my ceiling or peer at it through a cloud of malware? There are people who want to turn the world into a skinner box. I'm not going to fund their project just because I appreciate an author who has made a deal with them at some point. The author did not make that deal on my behalf. If I can't pay an author without also paying my enemies, then I'm not going to pay the author. But I'd really rather pay the author.
    - xbmcuser 3y ago
      I think many people are stuck in the cash mindset so it seems okay to them that they pay 2-3% in fees for an electric transfer. Where transporting $100 million and $1 would cost the same I don't understand the percentage fees. This includes credit card processor fees etc. A lot of you I feel sort of have Stockholm syndrome when it comes to stuff like this specially in the US. A lot of this stuff requires government intervention I think as it is impossible for any startup to bring about disruption. In Asian countries where credit cards were not that prevalent new processing systems have brought down the prices to 0.5%-1% which I still think is too high.
- ekianjo 3y ago
  Would not make it legal either strictly speaking
- __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
  I'd participate in something that made that more convenient. I imagine dedicating $30 /mo for "contributions to content creators". Then I move bits around on my terms, and at the end of the month, that money is allocated among creators based on how often their content was hashed by my reader.
- ClassyJacket 3y ago
  I think not knowing their address probably
- phantomathkg 3y ago
  I thought in most countries, sending banknote is illegal?
  - NavinF 3y ago
    What countries are you thinking of? I can't think of a single one where that's the case
    - ernesth 3y ago
      Not parent, but it is forbidden in France: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/id/LEGIARTI000028154450/2013-11-04/ https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/id/LEGIARTI000028154450...
  - nobody9999 3y ago
    >I thought in most countries, sending banknote is illegal? It is not illegal to mail cash within the US, unless you're trying to avoid paying taxes/launder money. Not sure about other countries, a cursory web search didn't turn up anything useful.
- MrVandemar 3y ago
  But the author is only one of the many people who are involved in the production of a book. Editing. Typesetting. Cover design. Cover art. Marketing. Arguably, all of those things are important and contribute to an author's success.
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    Doesn’t the publisher pay them a flat fee?
  - lrvick 3y ago
    And when those people give me a low friction way to pay them without supporting DRM, I will gladly do so. Of note, none of those people get paid when you buy a secondhand copy of a paper book. Piracy is no different here.
    - lxgr 3y ago
      > none of those people get paid when you buy a secondhand copy Yes, which is why nobody is saying "buy second-hand books to support your favorite author". Also, it's probably a small effect, but I'd guess that the existence of a secondary market contributes to at least some primary sales (since the buyers know they will probably be able to resell a book if they need to, making them more likely to buy a primary copy if they want to read it right now). Somebody paid for a second-hand copy, nobody paid for a pirated copy.
      - lrvick 3y ago
        "the existence of a secondary market contributes to at least some primary sales" Incidentally, many favorite books that I pirated when I was broke and had very little room, I later bought paper copies of. I also pirate most music, but if I really like a band I discovered via piracy, I will buy their vinyl or see them in concert. The ability to freely share content scondhand, be it a paper book or in digital form, creates new fans. Some of those fans have money to give back, or will share with people that do.
marcus_holmes 3y ago
I'm not a lawyer, but I think pirating it is actually more legal (in most jurisdictions) than removing DRM. As long as you just leech, you're not sharing copyrighted content, and therefore arguably not in breach of copyright.

by pierat 3y ago

southernplaces7 3y ago

Agreed that torrenting/pirating is practical and simple, but since both downloading pirated books and stripping their DRM are both illegal anyhow, why not learn the minor skills required? After all, somebody somewhere has to post those DRM-stripped books online, so it's at least useful to work on learning the actual trick of doing it instead of depending on others' efforts.

Qwertious 3y ago

Also, there's nothing strictly speaking preventing you from mailing $20 to the author of the book you pirated; it's just inconvenient.

xbmcuser 3y ago
I think all authors and other content producers should have sort of a tip jar where we can send them money without someone else taking a big cut. A lot of superfluous charges are put still put for money transfer today so even something like patreon can cost 8-10% of what they recieve. How can they charge such a large percentage on money transfer that is mostly bits.
- Moru 3y ago
  I believe Ko-fi is not taking a cut but has it's own tip-jar.
- lxgr 3y ago
  > How can they charge such a large percentage on money transfer that is mostly bits. Because they provide a platform (making content more visible), payment processing (which can be 3% or more for some payment methods), customer support etc. If content producers don't need any of that, they can always have a self-hosted website with their own donation button (or physical mailing address for checks and banknotes, cryptocurrency address etc). > I think all authors and other content producers should have sort of a tip jar That tip jar would cut out everybody else involved in the production of a book and in getting you to even find out about it existing. Every author has the option to self-publish and set their own price (including a "pay-as-you-wish" option), but on the other hand, if they prefer the (relatively) lower risk of going with a traditional publisher, you should also respect that decision and not sidestep that by unilaterally deciding that "oh, I'd prefer you would have made this DRM-free and pay-as-you-wish, here's a check for $20!".
  - __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
    The way to solve that is to have the "tip jar" be a smart contract which redistributes inbound money transparently. I don't have a problem with funding the supporting parties, I just don't want the pie to be divvied up behind closed doors where my decision to contribute might end up working against my interests. If somebody puts together a different tip jar which supports and even wider variety of people, or does so in a more equitable way, I want to be free to choose that one instead. Let content compete for legitimacy based on how integrated into the wider community it's associated tip jar is.
    - lxgr 3y ago
      But what if that’s the way the author has decided to do things? Not everybody wants a tip jar. Why should you get to impose your views over that of the author who’s book you want to read?
      - __MatrixMan__ 3y ago
        Because I'm the one reading it. I don't care if they think I should read it in a couch or a hammock or a bathtub, why should I care whether they think I should print it on a page or project it on my ceiling or peer at it through a cloud of malware? There are people who want to turn the world into a skinner box. I'm not going to fund their project just because I appreciate an author who has made a deal with them at some point. The author did not make that deal on my behalf. If I can't pay an author without also paying my enemies, then I'm not going to pay the author. But I'd really rather pay the author.
  - xbmcuser 3y ago
    I think many people are stuck in the cash mindset so it seems okay to them that they pay 2-3% in fees for an electric transfer. Where transporting $100 million and $1 would cost the same I don't understand the percentage fees. This includes credit card processor fees etc. A lot of you I feel sort of have Stockholm syndrome when it comes to stuff like this specially in the US. A lot of this stuff requires government intervention I think as it is impossible for any startup to bring about disruption. In Asian countries where credit cards were not that prevalent new processing systems have brought down the prices to 0.5%-1% which I still think is too high.
ekianjo 3y ago
Would not make it legal either strictly speaking
__MatrixMan__ 3y ago
I'd participate in something that made that more convenient. I imagine dedicating $30 /mo for "contributions to content creators". Then I move bits around on my terms, and at the end of the month, that money is allocated among creators based on how often their content was hashed by my reader.
ClassyJacket 3y ago
I think not knowing their address probably
phantomathkg 3y ago
I thought in most countries, sending banknote is illegal?
- NavinF 3y ago
  What countries are you thinking of? I can't think of a single one where that's the case
  - ernesth 3y ago
    Not parent, but it is forbidden in France: https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/id/LEGIARTI000028154450/2013-11-04/ https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/codes/id/LEGIARTI000028154450...
- nobody9999 3y ago
  >I thought in most countries, sending banknote is illegal? It is not illegal to mail cash within the US, unless you're trying to avoid paying taxes/launder money. Not sure about other countries, a cursory web search didn't turn up anything useful.
MrVandemar 3y ago
But the author is only one of the many people who are involved in the production of a book. Editing. Typesetting. Cover design. Cover art. Marketing. Arguably, all of those things are important and contribute to an author's success.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  Doesn’t the publisher pay them a flat fee?
- lrvick 3y ago
  And when those people give me a low friction way to pay them without supporting DRM, I will gladly do so. Of note, none of those people get paid when you buy a secondhand copy of a paper book. Piracy is no different here.
  - lxgr 3y ago
    > none of those people get paid when you buy a secondhand copy Yes, which is why nobody is saying "buy second-hand books to support your favorite author". Also, it's probably a small effect, but I'd guess that the existence of a secondary market contributes to at least some primary sales (since the buyers know they will probably be able to resell a book if they need to, making them more likely to buy a primary copy if they want to read it right now). Somebody paid for a second-hand copy, nobody paid for a pirated copy.
    - lrvick 3y ago
      "the existence of a secondary market contributes to at least some primary sales" Incidentally, many favorite books that I pirated when I was broke and had very little room, I later bought paper copies of. I also pirate most music, but if I really like a band I discovered via piracy, I will buy their vinyl or see them in concert. The ability to freely share content scondhand, be it a paper book or in digital form, creates new fans. Some of those fans have money to give back, or will share with people that do.

marcus_holmes 3y ago

I'm not a lawyer, but I think pirating it is actually more legal (in most jurisdictions) than removing DRM. As long as you just leech, you're not sharing copyrighted content, and therefore arguably not in breach of copyright.