8 ms·

For those that are curious and not well verse in research level biology, what kind of food, drink and lifestyle will help maintain a gut biome that prevent Alzh

by pajep 3y ago

For those that are curious and not well verse in research level biology, what kind of food, drink and lifestyle will help maintain a gut biome that prevent Alzheimer

chiefalchemist 3y ago
The usual. The way we evolved: Avoid processed foods and move (i.e., exercise). Obviously, only take antibiotics when absolutely necessary.
- WanderPanda 3y ago
  I should have discovered earlier in my life that prescribing antibiotics is the doctors equivalent of „you don‘t get fired for buying ibm“.
- bagels 3y ago
  What does processed even mean? Unless I run out in the field and bite a cow, that meat is going to be processed. Likewise with potatoes, I'm going to be eating unpalatable starchy uncooked potatoes.
  - MrsPeaches 3y ago
    I found this list really helpful to understand: https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/what_is_ultra-processed_food https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/what_is_ultra-processed_...
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    In 2023 it means... An apple...not processed. An ear of corn...not processed. Oatmeal...not processed. Frozen peas...not processed. Breakfast cereal...processed. Heat & serve meals in the frozen section...processed. Yogurt with fruit (and tons of sugar) pre-added...processed. Soft drinks...processed. Kid's "Happy Meal"...processed. And so on. Btw, Slaughtered and butchered meats !== processed meats. Recommened book: - Exercised - D Lieberman https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/aug/29/exercised-by-daniel-lieberman-review-fitness-myths-exploded https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/aug/29/exercised-by-d... - Burn - Pontzer https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/07/16/1016931725/study-of-hunter-gatherer-lifestyle-shows-why-crash-weight-loss-programs-dont-wor https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/07/16/1016931... - Comfort Crisis - M Easter - Scarcity Brain - M Easter https://eastermichael.com/ https://eastermichael.com/ Also recommended, the series "The Foods That Built America" on the History Channel. p.s. Again, key phrase "as we evolved". Last I checked archeologist aren't digging up McDonald's from eons ago.
    - Workaccount2 3y ago
      Generally, if you buy it on the perimeter of the grocery store, and it has a relatively short shelf-life, it's not processed.
  - SquibblesRedux 3y ago
    > Unless I run out in the field and bite a cow Oh, how I now want to invent a new fad diet...
    - chiefalchemist 3y ago
      Given the question, I'm willing to bet that running is likely to result in a heart attack.
  - Retric 3y ago
    Every kind of food processing has trade offs including cooking which destroys vitamin C among other things. White rice was historically missing thiamine (B1) found in brown/hole which was killing off a surprisingly large number of people in Asia as it became popular. Now days foods are often fortified with various things to cover the most common and severe issues, but that’s probably not enough on its own. In terms of highly processed foods you run into various additives. There’s a long list of minimally studied additives/dyes/preservatives/etc being used only for them to later be recalled and replaced with some other poorly studied substances. Ignorance may be a legal defense for Nabisco adding X to their products, but it’s not going to protect your health. So, the advice is basically to have the absolute minimum amount of processing steps which is a surprisingly useful heuristic alongside having a varied diet including lots of different plants.
  - _jal 3y ago
    I take it you interpret "save money" to mean keep yourself barely fed, clothed and housed, and otherwise consuming the bare minimum so that you can maximize the amount you put away? If not, you might want to loosen your interpretation of words in other domains, too.
  - toenail 3y ago
    Industrial processing. As a simple rule, the longer the list of ingredients on the food label, the more processed. The ingredients aren't something you'd normally think of as food? More processed.
    - TeMPOraL 3y ago
      Keep in mind that if you buy a bunch of "let's pretend it's not processed" "healthy" foods and use them to cook a meal, you're a) creating an ultra-processed meal, and b) it now has a long list of ingredients, you're just not writing it down.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
    - SoftTalker 3y ago
      Basically don't eat food that comes in a box. Eat fresh or frozen meats, vegetables, fruits, some whole grains. In most supermarkets, shop around the perimeter and avoid everything in the center aisles.
      - chiefalchemist 3y ago
        Another way I've heard it stated: "single ingredient foods." And as you prepare them, try to keep them that way. For example, adding a ton of butter to potatoes makes them 10x less healthy. More or less, calorically they become fries. Fries taste great but they should be an occasional treat, not a staple.
        deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]
mise_en_place 3y ago
Generalizing but it seems that harmful microbiota prefers glucose but leaves behind bad metabolic byproducts. Whereas beneficial microbiota leaves behind lactic acid? So maybe lactofermented foods will help.
FedorinoGore 3y ago
I've been on a journey of hyper-optimisation of my nutrition for various goals (sport performance, health, intellectual performance, etc). Mediterranean diet seem to be the GOAT in most cases
- Podgajski 3y ago
  Unless you are Asian, or an Inuit. Genetics matter. Eat like your great grandmother.
  - superpope99 3y ago
    what if your great grandmother had Alzheimer's
    - Podgajski 3y ago
      [flagged]
Podgajski 3y ago
This is impossible to say if you do not know your genetics. For example, being a FUT2 non-secretor will change everything about what you eat. Trust me, I am a FUT2 non-secretor. So in my case I need to eat a lot of seaweed and mushrooms which are both high in fucose (not fructose!). https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0094863 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2020.606171/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2020.60617...
datameta 3y ago
Fatty fish, most nuts (that don't have high omega-6, which is inflammatory), fruits high in antioxidants like berries and dark fruit in general, colorful vegetable, cooking with olive/avocado/sunflower oil, *kefir* which is the champion of all good microbiota inducers As for avoiding: red meat (high in omega-6), gluten (chickpea, rice, lentil pasta instead of wheat), cooking with hydrogenated oils, preservatives, processed food, refined sugar The lists could be much longer. Look up anti-inflammatory diet aka mediterranean diet. What I will say is adhering to this diet has done as much for my inflammatory condition as all the medication. With some foods I feel their effect right away (pork, too much sugar), with some it sneaks up as I let it slip for a few days. So I stand by it.
- ffgjgf1 3y ago
  Most of this is conjecture though and should taken with a huge grain of salt (if we’re focusing on Alzheimers specifically)
  - datameta 3y ago
    If we're focusing on effects of diet on immune systems, especially those not functioning nominally, it is quite readily available information now. Was not so half a decade ago. The immune system is affected strongly by gut microbiota health, therefore it is a solid base to assume the same applies dietary considerations apply for Alzheimer's. I'm going to plug a health model rapidly gaining mainstream acceptance by healthcare providers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopsychosocial_model?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopsychosocial_model?wprov=sf... It posits that all factors of life are important for overall good health. The TL;DR is that one needs to consider diet, exercise, socialization, hobbies, etc in addition to whatever medication regimen is helping.
- lapetitejort 3y ago
  I'm a fermentation freak so I have to highlight how uncooked fermented foods like sauerkraut and the aforementioned kefir play into anti-inflammation [0]. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8147091/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8147091/
adamredwoods 3y ago
If diet had an effect on Alzheimer's, then those patients that have altered medical diets / starve at the end would show improvement, no?
- WanderPanda 3y ago
  I think this doesn‘t mean diet can prevent it altogether let alone revert it
- mobilejdral 3y ago
  From the linked article: "... something as simple as taking fish oils had reduced dementia risk by 9%. This is equivalent to the risk reduction found from quitting smoking. However, the effect is not the same without B vitamins." So yeah. My summary simply illuminates the pathway/reason why as well as why there are so many confusing comorbidities.
fswd 3y ago
warm days-old left out fermented milk called Kefir.
- ornornor 3y ago
  You can also make kefir with fruity water if you’re not into animal products.

by pajep 3y ago

For those that are curious and not well verse in research level biology, what kind of food, drink and lifestyle will help maintain a gut biome that prevent Alzheimer

chiefalchemist 3y ago

The usual. The way we evolved: Avoid processed foods and move (i.e., exercise). Obviously, only take antibiotics when absolutely necessary.

WanderPanda 3y ago
I should have discovered earlier in my life that prescribing antibiotics is the doctors equivalent of „you don‘t get fired for buying ibm“.
bagels 3y ago
What does processed even mean? Unless I run out in the field and bite a cow, that meat is going to be processed. Likewise with potatoes, I'm going to be eating unpalatable starchy uncooked potatoes.
- MrsPeaches 3y ago
  I found this list really helpful to understand: https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/what_is_ultra-processed_food https://www.bbc.co.uk/food/articles/what_is_ultra-processed_...
- chiefalchemist 3y ago
  In 2023 it means... An apple...not processed. An ear of corn...not processed. Oatmeal...not processed. Frozen peas...not processed. Breakfast cereal...processed. Heat & serve meals in the frozen section...processed. Yogurt with fruit (and tons of sugar) pre-added...processed. Soft drinks...processed. Kid's "Happy Meal"...processed. And so on. Btw, Slaughtered and butchered meats !== processed meats. Recommened book: - Exercised - D Lieberman https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/aug/29/exercised-by-daniel-lieberman-review-fitness-myths-exploded https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/aug/29/exercised-by-d... - Burn - Pontzer https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/07/16/1016931725/study-of-hunter-gatherer-lifestyle-shows-why-crash-weight-loss-programs-dont-wor https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/07/16/1016931... - Comfort Crisis - M Easter - Scarcity Brain - M Easter https://eastermichael.com/ https://eastermichael.com/ Also recommended, the series "The Foods That Built America" on the History Channel. p.s. Again, key phrase "as we evolved". Last I checked archeologist aren't digging up McDonald's from eons ago.
  - Workaccount2 3y ago
    Generally, if you buy it on the perimeter of the grocery store, and it has a relatively short shelf-life, it's not processed.
- SquibblesRedux 3y ago
  > Unless I run out in the field and bite a cow Oh, how I now want to invent a new fad diet...
  - chiefalchemist 3y ago
    Given the question, I'm willing to bet that running is likely to result in a heart attack.
- Retric 3y ago
  Every kind of food processing has trade offs including cooking which destroys vitamin C among other things. White rice was historically missing thiamine (B1) found in brown/hole which was killing off a surprisingly large number of people in Asia as it became popular. Now days foods are often fortified with various things to cover the most common and severe issues, but that’s probably not enough on its own. In terms of highly processed foods you run into various additives. There’s a long list of minimally studied additives/dyes/preservatives/etc being used only for them to later be recalled and replaced with some other poorly studied substances. Ignorance may be a legal defense for Nabisco adding X to their products, but it’s not going to protect your health. So, the advice is basically to have the absolute minimum amount of processing steps which is a surprisingly useful heuristic alongside having a varied diet including lots of different plants.
- _jal 3y ago
  I take it you interpret "save money" to mean keep yourself barely fed, clothed and housed, and otherwise consuming the bare minimum so that you can maximize the amount you put away? If not, you might want to loosen your interpretation of words in other domains, too.
- toenail 3y ago
  Industrial processing. As a simple rule, the longer the list of ingredients on the food label, the more processed. The ingredients aren't something you'd normally think of as food? More processed.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    Keep in mind that if you buy a bunch of "let's pretend it's not processed" "healthy" foods and use them to cook a meal, you're a) creating an ultra-processed meal, and b) it now has a long list of ingredients, you're just not writing it down.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - SoftTalker 3y ago
    Basically don't eat food that comes in a box. Eat fresh or frozen meats, vegetables, fruits, some whole grains. In most supermarkets, shop around the perimeter and avoid everything in the center aisles.
    - chiefalchemist 3y ago
      Another way I've heard it stated: "single ingredient foods." And as you prepare them, try to keep them that way. For example, adding a ton of butter to potatoes makes them 10x less healthy. More or less, calorically they become fries. Fries taste great but they should be an occasional treat, not a staple.
      - deleted 3y ago
        [deleted]

mise_en_place 3y ago

Generalizing but it seems that harmful microbiota prefers glucose but leaves behind bad metabolic byproducts. Whereas beneficial microbiota leaves behind lactic acid? So maybe lactofermented foods will help.

FedorinoGore 3y ago

I've been on a journey of hyper-optimisation of my nutrition for various goals (sport performance, health, intellectual performance, etc). Mediterranean diet seem to be the GOAT in most cases

Podgajski 3y ago
Unless you are Asian, or an Inuit. Genetics matter. Eat like your great grandmother.
- superpope99 3y ago
  what if your great grandmother had Alzheimer's
  - Podgajski 3y ago
    [flagged]

Podgajski 3y ago

This is impossible to say if you do not know your genetics. For example, being a FUT2 non-secretor will change everything about what you eat. Trust me, I am a FUT2 non-secretor. So in my case I need to eat a lot of seaweed and mushrooms which are both high in fucose (not fructose!). https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0094863 https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal... https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2020.606171/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2020.60617...

datameta 3y ago

Fatty fish, most nuts (that don't have high omega-6, which is inflammatory), fruits high in antioxidants like berries and dark fruit in general, colorful vegetable, cooking with olive/avocado/sunflower oil, *kefir* which is the champion of all good microbiota inducers As for avoiding: red meat (high in omega-6), gluten (chickpea, rice, lentil pasta instead of wheat), cooking with hydrogenated oils, preservatives, processed food, refined sugar The lists could be much longer. Look up anti-inflammatory diet aka mediterranean diet. What I will say is adhering to this diet has done as much for my inflammatory condition as all the medication. With some foods I feel their effect right away (pork, too much sugar), with some it sneaks up as I let it slip for a few days. So I stand by it.

ffgjgf1 3y ago
Most of this is conjecture though and should taken with a huge grain of salt (if we’re focusing on Alzheimers specifically)
- datameta 3y ago
  If we're focusing on effects of diet on immune systems, especially those not functioning nominally, it is quite readily available information now. Was not so half a decade ago. The immune system is affected strongly by gut microbiota health, therefore it is a solid base to assume the same applies dietary considerations apply for Alzheimer's. I'm going to plug a health model rapidly gaining mainstream acceptance by healthcare providers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopsychosocial_model?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biopsychosocial_model?wprov=sf... It posits that all factors of life are important for overall good health. The TL;DR is that one needs to consider diet, exercise, socialization, hobbies, etc in addition to whatever medication regimen is helping.
lapetitejort 3y ago
I'm a fermentation freak so I have to highlight how uncooked fermented foods like sauerkraut and the aforementioned kefir play into anti-inflammation [0]. [0]: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8147091/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8147091/

adamredwoods 3y ago

If diet had an effect on Alzheimer's, then those patients that have altered medical diets / starve at the end would show improvement, no?

WanderPanda 3y ago
I think this doesn‘t mean diet can prevent it altogether let alone revert it
mobilejdral 3y ago
From the linked article: "... something as simple as taking fish oils had reduced dementia risk by 9%. This is equivalent to the risk reduction found from quitting smoking. However, the effect is not the same without B vitamins." So yeah. My summary simply illuminates the pathway/reason why as well as why there are so many confusing comorbidities.

fswd 3y ago

warm days-old left out fermented milk called Kefir.

ornornor 3y ago
You can also make kefir with fruity water if you’re not into animal products.