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There's something interestingly poisonous about the demoscene mentality. Write small, hacky, throwaway, non-reusable code, hand minified beyond readability. Uni

There's something interestingly poisonous about the demoscene mentality. Write small, hacky, throwaway, non-reusable code, hand minified beyond readability. Unit tests aren't relevant. You can see this mentality infect WebGL systems and places like Shadertoy. There's a tension between "software engineering" (whatever you want to call it) and demoscene hackers.

intelVISA 3y ago
Software 'engineers' see the demoscene as an annoying reminder that code can also be crafted like art, unconstrained from corporate concepts like 'design patterns' and 'clean code'.
- OrangeMusic 3y ago
  Annoying? You mean refreshing. I don't see why these 2 things have to be a conflict. For business software, of course correctness and maintainability are paramount. For demos and games, of course performance and "quick and dirty" are more important. I'd say most developers can do both and know when to do one or the other.
- enos_feedler 3y ago
  not just crafted like art, but actually is art. it's an executable that runs just for the sake of lighting up some hardware. Not for collecting your email address or selling you a thing.
bhouston 3y ago
Huh? The demo scene is a bunch of kids having fun and learning algorithms primarily. To tell them that they need to write unit tests is ridiculous. They will have time to learn about large scale architecture and unit tests in time - by why not try to have fun for a bit? Shadertoy isn’t meant to be reusable/production code. It is meant to be a fun computer graphics algorithm place. A place to experiment and learn. We can take the fun out of coding later - that is what paying jobs are for. Why not have some spaces for fun?
- stevebmark 3y ago
  No, go the other direction. Once those kids start working on code that other people use, the poison can cause them to shun compile steps, types, tests, build processes, comments, module organization.
  - feffe 3y ago
    Hmm, I was a hang around back in the day. Not one of the big boys. But I got to say some of the young kids that I hung around with then had more skills than many I've worked with in the industry since. Going on my 25th year as a "professional" SW developer.
akikoo 3y ago
C=64 has a 1 MHz cpu and 64 KiB of memory but that doesn't stop magicians from creating things like this: Booze Design - Edge of Disgrace https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLIUkBa_mA0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLIUkBa_mA0
anthk 3y ago
If you just knew how shitty actually were lots of commercial releases with tons of crude and shitty hacks before a release... Specially in commercial gaming.

intelVISA 3y ago

Software 'engineers' see the demoscene as an annoying reminder that code can also be crafted like art, unconstrained from corporate concepts like 'design patterns' and 'clean code'.

OrangeMusic 3y ago
Annoying? You mean refreshing. I don't see why these 2 things have to be a conflict. For business software, of course correctness and maintainability are paramount. For demos and games, of course performance and "quick and dirty" are more important. I'd say most developers can do both and know when to do one or the other.
enos_feedler 3y ago
not just crafted like art, but actually is art. it's an executable that runs just for the sake of lighting up some hardware. Not for collecting your email address or selling you a thing.

bhouston 3y ago

Huh? The demo scene is a bunch of kids having fun and learning algorithms primarily. To tell them that they need to write unit tests is ridiculous. They will have time to learn about large scale architecture and unit tests in time - by why not try to have fun for a bit? Shadertoy isn’t meant to be reusable/production code. It is meant to be a fun computer graphics algorithm place. A place to experiment and learn. We can take the fun out of coding later - that is what paying jobs are for. Why not have some spaces for fun?

stevebmark 3y ago
No, go the other direction. Once those kids start working on code that other people use, the poison can cause them to shun compile steps, types, tests, build processes, comments, module organization.
- feffe 3y ago
  Hmm, I was a hang around back in the day. Not one of the big boys. But I got to say some of the young kids that I hung around with then had more skills than many I've worked with in the industry since. Going on my 25th year as a "professional" SW developer.

akikoo 3y ago

C=64 has a 1 MHz cpu and 64 KiB of memory but that doesn't stop magicians from creating things like this: Booze Design - Edge of Disgrace https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLIUkBa_mA0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLIUkBa_mA0

anthk 3y ago

If you just knew how shitty actually were lots of commercial releases with tons of crude and shitty hacks before a release... Specially in commercial gaming.