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> If you can't get them interested for selfish reasons, you can force them to switch by going after the pollution issue at a state and local level. Get cities a

> If you can't get them interested for selfish reasons, you can force them to switch by going after the pollution issue at a state and local level. Get cities and neighborhoods to ban 2-stroke engines in their communities and contracts. It will be popular with constituents, and landscapers will pass the slight capex cost increase in contract terms. This will force professionals to switch from Stihl to your partner toolmaker, with large investments in tools and especially batteries. This should drive sales in the rest of your partner's tooling ecosystem from an unsaturated group, something you should highlight during that royalty negotiations with your partner. While I agree that two stroke equipment has a lot of downside, I really can’t get behind the idea that it is acceptable for an interested party to lobby to legally ban their competitor’s products as a sales strategy. This feels like ethics free capitalism exploiting nimbys to force small business money into a large corporation.

38 3y ago
It's acceptable when the competition is knowingly pushing asshole levels of noise and air pollution. Fuck gas equipment. The sooner they are forced out the better.
- dghlsakjg 3y ago
  I’m not a fan of the externalities of gas powered small engines, but I strongly disagree that the ends justify the means. I simply don’t want businesses making decisions about which of their competitors products I can own and use. If the ban derives from a community interest in stopping a nuisance, that’s fine. I draw the line at using legislation to force a market advantage.
  - 38 3y ago
    these are not isolated events. these are thousands of workers buying the the most offensive products, in regards to noise and pollution. these workers dont care about the annoyance that they bring to millions of people every day. same as any worker that used lead paint, CFCs, asbestos, or any number of other harmful items. they need to be stopped. if a corporation wants to step in and help that along, even using unethical lobbying methods, then yes, this is a case where the ends very much justify the means.
    - dghlsakjg 3y ago
      Is your objection to the nuisance factor or to people owning equipment capable of being a nuisance if used inappropriately? If so it would make more sense to regulate the externality than it would to have a company dictate that we must buy their products. Why not outlaw the actual problem. Set a noise and pollution limit if the problem is noise and pollution.
    - hedora 3y ago
      It’s not really fair to blame workers when there’s no good alternative available. That’s doubly true for things like asbestos mines, where the people designing the mine didn’t work in the mine. If you really want to understand the problem, the next time you have a plumbing issue, go to Home Depot, and attempt to repair it using lead-free parts.
      - mindslight 3y ago
        My basic Dewalt 20V battery leaf blower works great for me. I was going to minmax it into an Ego or Dewalt 60V but I bought the lesser model because it was on a great sale, and I've found it plenty powerful. The dynamic of moving air around is one of diminishing returns, so I suspect doubling or tripling the input power wouldn't actually add that much. > the next time you have a plumbing issue, go to Home Depot, and attempt to repair it using lead-free parts I'm scratching my head as to what you're referencing here. If you're just pointing out that "lead free" brass has a slight amount of lead in it, at least that's an amount which has been deemed safe for drinking water. If you're saying that doing residential plumbing actually requires using parts that haven't been approved for potable water, I don't know that you can be helped.
        dghlsakjg 3y ago
        Your DeWalt has a battery life of 15ish minutes on the high end according to the manufacturer. Then you need to charge for 90 minutes or have another $140 battery on hand. What works great for you doesn't sound like a great solution for an operation that needs to run motorized equipment for hours per day.
  - hedora 3y ago
    Well, if you live in the US, that boat sailed over a century ago. For instance, the automobile and gas industries forced through legislation (by buying elections) that ripped out and prevents us from rebuilding a decent passenger train network.
    - dghlsakjg 3y ago
      The knowledge that it happens doesn't mean that I have to like it, accept it, or not fight against it.

38 3y ago

It's acceptable when the competition is knowingly pushing asshole levels of noise and air pollution. Fuck gas equipment. The sooner they are forced out the better.

dghlsakjg 3y ago
I’m not a fan of the externalities of gas powered small engines, but I strongly disagree that the ends justify the means. I simply don’t want businesses making decisions about which of their competitors products I can own and use. If the ban derives from a community interest in stopping a nuisance, that’s fine. I draw the line at using legislation to force a market advantage.
- 38 3y ago
  these are not isolated events. these are thousands of workers buying the the most offensive products, in regards to noise and pollution. these workers dont care about the annoyance that they bring to millions of people every day. same as any worker that used lead paint, CFCs, asbestos, or any number of other harmful items. they need to be stopped. if a corporation wants to step in and help that along, even using unethical lobbying methods, then yes, this is a case where the ends very much justify the means.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    Is your objection to the nuisance factor or to people owning equipment capable of being a nuisance if used inappropriately? If so it would make more sense to regulate the externality than it would to have a company dictate that we must buy their products. Why not outlaw the actual problem. Set a noise and pollution limit if the problem is noise and pollution.
  - hedora 3y ago
    It’s not really fair to blame workers when there’s no good alternative available. That’s doubly true for things like asbestos mines, where the people designing the mine didn’t work in the mine. If you really want to understand the problem, the next time you have a plumbing issue, go to Home Depot, and attempt to repair it using lead-free parts.
    - mindslight 3y ago
      My basic Dewalt 20V battery leaf blower works great for me. I was going to minmax it into an Ego or Dewalt 60V but I bought the lesser model because it was on a great sale, and I've found it plenty powerful. The dynamic of moving air around is one of diminishing returns, so I suspect doubling or tripling the input power wouldn't actually add that much. > the next time you have a plumbing issue, go to Home Depot, and attempt to repair it using lead-free parts I'm scratching my head as to what you're referencing here. If you're just pointing out that "lead free" brass has a slight amount of lead in it, at least that's an amount which has been deemed safe for drinking water. If you're saying that doing residential plumbing actually requires using parts that haven't been approved for potable water, I don't know that you can be helped.
      - dghlsakjg 3y ago
        Your DeWalt has a battery life of 15ish minutes on the high end according to the manufacturer. Then you need to charge for 90 minutes or have another $140 battery on hand. What works great for you doesn't sound like a great solution for an operation that needs to run motorized equipment for hours per day.
- hedora 3y ago
  Well, if you live in the US, that boat sailed over a century ago. For instance, the automobile and gas industries forced through legislation (by buying elections) that ripped out and prevents us from rebuilding a decent passenger train network.
  - dghlsakjg 3y ago
    The knowledge that it happens doesn't mean that I have to like it, accept it, or not fight against it.