4 ms·

Webb detects quartz crystals in clouds of hot gas giant

91 points by wglb 3y ago

Crunchified 3y ago
I wonder if there's a cloud of Timex watches taking a licking out there...
OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
As a spectroscopist I appreciate how excrementally hard these measurements are to make. Also as a spectroscopist, I look at the error bars (especially as wavelength increases) and wonder how they make the assignments. (Yes, I did read the paper)
- spullara 3y ago
  excrementally? like, hard as shit?
  - OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
    I was inspired by https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/98ba61b7-99c5-4a6b-b49e-a0e6f3932423 https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/98ba61b7-99c5-4a6b-b49e-a0e6f39...
- jonhohle 3y ago
  > excrementally hard Sounds terrible.
- photonbeam 3y ago
  > excrementally I’ll be looking for ways to use this in casual conversation
  - OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
    John Cleese has a use case. Please see the link to getyarn.io below (assuming post order stays constant of course)
  - mikepurvis 3y ago
    My assumption is that Cleese's use is an intentionally comedic corruption of "execrably", but given his pedigree it's probably now considered the King's English.
    - OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
      I thought he was slipping something past the censors. He uses a different epithet in this live performance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT3OQECSDoQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT3OQECSDoQ
- defrost 3y ago
  > and wonder how they make the assignments. Worth looking into, ie: request their raw data and crawl over their numerics. The paper suggests a lot of 5 sigma et al rejections and iterative rolling medians, etc. all of which is all very fine save oft times in the execution via hand rolled exquisitely crafted one off filters that can converge and produce results even if "wrong" (off by one binning errors, etc. etc. etc...). I'm not saying they're wrong, I am saying (as you likely know) it's easy to make small mistakes that can reinforce noise into signal.
  - OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
    > Worth looking into, ie: request their raw data and crawl over their numerics. I didn't say I was a good spectroscopist. ;-P I kid, I kid. On the one hand, a planet crosses its star. A craptillion miles away, JWST captures the starlight passing through a sliver of atmosphere and spectrally resolves it to whatever degree it can through multiple instruments. That's just incredible. On the other hand, qualitative chemical analysis of gas mixtures is hard enough with high spectral resolution and these are low resolution spectra. Gas phase lineshapes in lab spectra can be Lorentzian, Gaussian, or usually Voigt (convolution of Lorentzian and Gaussian.) Teasing out the fits usually requires not just high resolution but very high SNR especially in the wings: https://cefrc.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toruqf1071/files/Files/2013%20Lecture%20Notes/Hanson/pLecture6.pdf https://cefrc.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toruqf1071/files/F... Not only are the authors claiming to identify silicates but nanoparticles of quartz vs. other silicates and/or oxides using broad spectral bins and with big error bars. I just don't see how they get there no matter how much they "torture the data." Having seen a few of these recent spectral announcements, I have to wonder what's really going on. JWST was conceptualized in the late 1980s before exoplanets were even found. AFAIR, it was going to be a "First Light Machine." Then as exoplanets became important and the JWST program ran into trouble, it feels like the exoplanetary characterization became integral to keeping the program sold. Slide 26 of this presentation by exoplaneteers even states a goal: "Reclaim JWST from cosmologists – Win more than our fair share with a goal of capturing 25% of mission time" https://exoplanets.nasa.gov/exep/files/exep/4%20Beichman.pdf https://exoplanets.nasa.gov/exep/files/exep/4%20Beichman.pdf JWST is a magnificent beast but even at 6.5m, it can only collect so much and stare for so long. It feels like it is a pathfinder that will set requirements for future exoplanet-specific missions.
- mnky9800n 3y ago
  I always enjoyed the irony of combining spectroscopy with astronomy for exactly this reason.
micw 3y ago
Is that kind of primordial soup for silicon based life?
- nuccy 3y ago
  With these error-bars and the whole concept of such observation that may well be a primoridal soup for silicon based life or a planet-scale sand storm or Saturn-like silicon-rich rings face-on. You should keep in mind that the planet is not resolved at all, it is just changes of the star spectrum when a tiny (in comparison with the star) planet passes in front of it.
  - distract8901 3y ago
    Jeez, that signal must have been absolutely infinitesimal. How do you even notice something like that? Guess I should read the article
- tristramb 3y ago
  My thought was that the quartz crystal might provide a solid surface for catalysing interesting chemical reactions that might lead to life.
- JoBrad 3y ago
  It’s a really bad sandstorm for spaceships.
aledalgrande 3y ago
TIL "hot Jupiter exoplanet"
- zirgs 3y ago
  The easiest type of exoplanet to detect.
- itishappy 3y ago
  "in your area!"

91 points by wglb 3y ago

I wonder if there's a cloud of Timex watches taking a licking out there...

As a spectroscopist I appreciate how excrementally hard these measurements are to make. Also as a spectroscopist, I look at the error bars (especially as wavelength increases) and wonder how they make the assignments. (Yes, I did read the paper)

spullara 3y ago
excrementally? like, hard as shit?
- OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
  I was inspired by https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/98ba61b7-99c5-4a6b-b49e-a0e6f3932423 https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/98ba61b7-99c5-4a6b-b49e-a0e6f39...
jonhohle 3y ago
> excrementally hard Sounds terrible.
photonbeam 3y ago
> excrementally I’ll be looking for ways to use this in casual conversation
- OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
  John Cleese has a use case. Please see the link to getyarn.io below (assuming post order stays constant of course)
- mikepurvis 3y ago
  My assumption is that Cleese's use is an intentionally comedic corruption of "execrably", but given his pedigree it's probably now considered the King's English.
  - OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
    I thought he was slipping something past the censors. He uses a different epithet in this live performance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT3OQECSDoQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT3OQECSDoQ
defrost 3y ago
> and wonder how they make the assignments. Worth looking into, ie: request their raw data and crawl over their numerics. The paper suggests a lot of 5 sigma et al rejections and iterative rolling medians, etc. all of which is all very fine save oft times in the execution via hand rolled exquisitely crafted one off filters that can converge and produce results even if "wrong" (off by one binning errors, etc. etc. etc...). I'm not saying they're wrong, I am saying (as you likely know) it's easy to make small mistakes that can reinforce noise into signal.
- OldGuyInTheClub 3y ago
  > Worth looking into, ie: request their raw data and crawl over their numerics. I didn't say I was a good spectroscopist. ;-P I kid, I kid. On the one hand, a planet crosses its star. A craptillion miles away, JWST captures the starlight passing through a sliver of atmosphere and spectrally resolves it to whatever degree it can through multiple instruments. That's just incredible. On the other hand, qualitative chemical analysis of gas mixtures is hard enough with high spectral resolution and these are low resolution spectra. Gas phase lineshapes in lab spectra can be Lorentzian, Gaussian, or usually Voigt (convolution of Lorentzian and Gaussian.) Teasing out the fits usually requires not just high resolution but very high SNR especially in the wings: https://cefrc.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toruqf1071/files/Files/2013%20Lecture%20Notes/Hanson/pLecture6.pdf https://cefrc.princeton.edu/sites/g/files/toruqf1071/files/F... Not only are the authors claiming to identify silicates but nanoparticles of quartz vs. other silicates and/or oxides using broad spectral bins and with big error bars. I just don't see how they get there no matter how much they "torture the data." Having seen a few of these recent spectral announcements, I have to wonder what's really going on. JWST was conceptualized in the late 1980s before exoplanets were even found. AFAIR, it was going to be a "First Light Machine." Then as exoplanets became important and the JWST program ran into trouble, it feels like the exoplanetary characterization became integral to keeping the program sold. Slide 26 of this presentation by exoplaneteers even states a goal: "Reclaim JWST from cosmologists – Win more than our fair share with a goal of capturing 25% of mission time" https://exoplanets.nasa.gov/exep/files/exep/4%20Beichman.pdf https://exoplanets.nasa.gov/exep/files/exep/4%20Beichman.pdf JWST is a magnificent beast but even at 6.5m, it can only collect so much and stare for so long. It feels like it is a pathfinder that will set requirements for future exoplanet-specific missions.
mnky9800n 3y ago
I always enjoyed the irony of combining spectroscopy with astronomy for exactly this reason.

micw 3y ago

Is that kind of primordial soup for silicon based life?

nuccy 3y ago
With these error-bars and the whole concept of such observation that may well be a primoridal soup for silicon based life or a planet-scale sand storm or Saturn-like silicon-rich rings face-on. You should keep in mind that the planet is not resolved at all, it is just changes of the star spectrum when a tiny (in comparison with the star) planet passes in front of it.
- distract8901 3y ago
  Jeez, that signal must have been absolutely infinitesimal. How do you even notice something like that? Guess I should read the article
tristramb 3y ago
My thought was that the quartz crystal might provide a solid surface for catalysing interesting chemical reactions that might lead to life.
JoBrad 3y ago
It’s a really bad sandstorm for spaceships.

aledalgrande 3y ago

TIL "hot Jupiter exoplanet"

zirgs 3y ago
The easiest type of exoplanet to detect.
itishappy 3y ago
"in your area!"