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> landscapers will pass the slight capex cost increase in contract terms Not slight. I hate the noise but but realistically, you’re talking at least triple cos

by tomcam 3y ago

> landscapers will pass the slight capex cost increase in contract terms Not slight. I hate the noise but but realistically, you’re talking at least triple costs, and probably more, to go from gas to electric. You need a shit ton of batteries to last each day if you’re a professional landscaper, and that means serious infrastructure to handle all the battery charging.

Hasz 3y ago
Slight compared to TCV. Labor is (usually) the most expensive part; tooling is a one-time large upfront cost that can be depreciated. IME, the maintenance is much lower on electric tooling than even quality gas tooling. Batteries will also wear out, but I think this wear-out cost will be comparable to costs for small engine maintenance. I also don't think the battery tech is ready to replace riding lawnmowers (which use quieter, more efficient, less polluting 4-stroke engines anyways), but perhaps the $BILLIONS of dollars being poured into battery research will yield some improvements.
- tomcam 3y ago
  > I also don't think the battery tech is ready to replace riding lawnmowers (which use quieter, more efficient, less polluting 4-stroke engines anyways) Well that's the law in California starting 2028. And current tech in riding mowers is just nowhere near what pro landscapers need.
  - hedora 3y ago
    The law clearly says they can’t ban stuff with no feasible commercially available alternatives. Expect court challenges or an implementation delay if no one has built a good electric contractor-grade mower by 2028. The consumer-grade ride on ones are apparently pretty good already.
    - tomcam 3y ago
      Excellent correction, thank you
  - paradox460 3y ago
    I tried a mean green, which is a commercial ev mower. It's nice, better than an ego or whatever, but nothing next to a walker or toro
jhenkens 3y ago
I grew up in California, where rain was less of an issue and most landscapers I saw used open-bed pickups with all their tools. I'm currently in Oregon, most landscapers use box trailers to house everything here, which I think might be key to this. I saw an entertaining Youtuber with a "Solar powered" landscaping business in Florida, using a box truck with a hybrid inverter/solar charge controller/battery system, to recharge his lawn powertools while driving between jobs. I see this as a much more practical solution that just having enough of "proprietary company X" battery. Keep your batteries charging 24/7 while working, essentially. Toss some solar if the climate affords it on top to charge the larger batteries used for your inverter up. Plug in the entire trailer when you get home. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93F08kdiOfE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93F08kdiOfE
- londons_explore 3y ago
  Cover a workmans truck roof in solar, and you'll only get 1-2 kWh per day in good weather. Thats nowhere near enough for a crew of workers using leafblowers - which can be around 1 kw each. Weed wackers and lawnmowers are the same or more. It is plenty for a crew of builders using impact drivers, drills, screwdrivers, nail guns, etc. though. However, if the truck is electric, with a 100kWh battery, the 10-20 kWh used by the workers equipment during the day is a pretty small chunk of the total range.
  - Kon-Peki 3y ago
    Ford F150 hybrid (or even the full-electric version) can provide all the electricity needed to charge the spare batteries in the trailer while the crew is working with the main batteries. Sound is barely above truck idle, way way below the gas-powered equipment noise. The problem in my area is that an F150 is just not manly enough. Gotta have the F250 or F350. Heck, just the other day I saw a landscaper in my neighborhood using an F450 to haul his 1000 pound box trailer around.
    - dylan604 3y ago
      To be fair, do you know what else they are using that truck for when it's not within your eye sight? Maybe they are pulling larger trailers and equipment, but this day it only needed to pull the small trailer. Also, you act like it is the landscaper's problem for driving the trucks. We haven't even mentioned that fleet deals can be made for the larger trucks so they are actually cheaper than the F150 pricing. That leaves the F150 inventory for the soccer moms. As if it is a single button that needs to be pushed to "solve"
oh_sigh 3y ago
Imagine the competitive advantage of a lawn maintenance company that advertises their all-electric tools - "Your neighbor won't hate you by the time we leave".
m463 3y ago
I've seen contractors use batteries pretty effectively. They just plug in gang chargers and have batteries charging all the time. also, california has a bill stopping sales small gas-powered engines after 2024 (such as leaf blowers and lawn mowers)

by tomcam 3y ago

Hasz 3y ago

Slight compared to TCV. Labor is (usually) the most expensive part; tooling is a one-time large upfront cost that can be depreciated. IME, the maintenance is much lower on electric tooling than even quality gas tooling. Batteries will also wear out, but I think this wear-out cost will be comparable to costs for small engine maintenance. I also don't think the battery tech is ready to replace riding lawnmowers (which use quieter, more efficient, less polluting 4-stroke engines anyways), but perhaps the $BILLIONS of dollars being poured into battery research will yield some improvements.

tomcam 3y ago
> I also don't think the battery tech is ready to replace riding lawnmowers (which use quieter, more efficient, less polluting 4-stroke engines anyways) Well that's the law in California starting 2028. And current tech in riding mowers is just nowhere near what pro landscapers need.
- hedora 3y ago
  The law clearly says they can’t ban stuff with no feasible commercially available alternatives. Expect court challenges or an implementation delay if no one has built a good electric contractor-grade mower by 2028. The consumer-grade ride on ones are apparently pretty good already.
  - tomcam 3y ago
    Excellent correction, thank you
- paradox460 3y ago
  I tried a mean green, which is a commercial ev mower. It's nice, better than an ego or whatever, but nothing next to a walker or toro

jhenkens 3y ago

I grew up in California, where rain was less of an issue and most landscapers I saw used open-bed pickups with all their tools. I'm currently in Oregon, most landscapers use box trailers to house everything here, which I think might be key to this. I saw an entertaining Youtuber with a "Solar powered" landscaping business in Florida, using a box truck with a hybrid inverter/solar charge controller/battery system, to recharge his lawn powertools while driving between jobs. I see this as a much more practical solution that just having enough of "proprietary company X" battery. Keep your batteries charging 24/7 while working, essentially. Toss some solar if the climate affords it on top to charge the larger batteries used for your inverter up. Plug in the entire trailer when you get home. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93F08kdiOfE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93F08kdiOfE

londons_explore 3y ago
Cover a workmans truck roof in solar, and you'll only get 1-2 kWh per day in good weather. Thats nowhere near enough for a crew of workers using leafblowers - which can be around 1 kw each. Weed wackers and lawnmowers are the same or more. It is plenty for a crew of builders using impact drivers, drills, screwdrivers, nail guns, etc. though. However, if the truck is electric, with a 100kWh battery, the 10-20 kWh used by the workers equipment during the day is a pretty small chunk of the total range.
- Kon-Peki 3y ago
  Ford F150 hybrid (or even the full-electric version) can provide all the electricity needed to charge the spare batteries in the trailer while the crew is working with the main batteries. Sound is barely above truck idle, way way below the gas-powered equipment noise. The problem in my area is that an F150 is just not manly enough. Gotta have the F250 or F350. Heck, just the other day I saw a landscaper in my neighborhood using an F450 to haul his 1000 pound box trailer around.
  - dylan604 3y ago
    To be fair, do you know what else they are using that truck for when it's not within your eye sight? Maybe they are pulling larger trailers and equipment, but this day it only needed to pull the small trailer. Also, you act like it is the landscaper's problem for driving the trucks. We haven't even mentioned that fleet deals can be made for the larger trucks so they are actually cheaper than the F150 pricing. That leaves the F150 inventory for the soccer moms. As if it is a single button that needs to be pushed to "solve"

oh_sigh 3y ago

Imagine the competitive advantage of a lawn maintenance company that advertises their all-electric tools - "Your neighbor won't hate you by the time we leave".

m463 3y ago

I've seen contractors use batteries pretty effectively. They just plug in gang chargers and have batteries charging all the time. also, california has a bill stopping sales small gas-powered engines after 2024 (such as leaf blowers and lawn mowers)