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>I'll never understand why the default stance on HN is always javascript bad. I am a web dev, and I agree that JS on the web is bad for pages that should be ju

>I'll never understand why the default stance on HN is always javascript bad. I am a web dev, and I agree that JS on the web is bad for pages that should be just documents like a news webpage or wiki page. JS makes sense for applications like a video game, video/audio/level/text editor, or some internal app that your company trust, but for random untrusted document pages JavaScript is a detriment, even if we only consider UX.

andybak 3y ago
You're a web developer but your mental map of the web consists of "documents" on one end and "applications like a video game, video/audio/level/text editor(s)" on the other? You haven't in your career, stumbled across web (sites/apps) that sit somewhere on the spectrum between the extremes of "document" vs "app"? It strikes me that there's a fairly even distribution between those two points - even if we discount all the misguided "could have been a static site but someone decided it had to be an app" decisions. I actually agree with you on reigning in javascript but I think much of the web is poorer without it. We had an answer for this years back and it was called "progressive enhancement".
- simion314 3y ago
  Most links we opened daily are to read stuff not to interact with stuff, either read documentation, read news, read some social media page. Those pages should be readable without scripting but for some reason they do not load at all without JS.
  - andybak 3y ago
    Yes. That was the bit where I mentioned "progressive enhancement".
- thedaly 3y ago
  > Progressive enhancement is a strategy in web design that puts emphasis on web content first, allowing everyone to access the basic content and functionality of a web page, whilst users with additional browser features or faster Internet access receive the enhanced version instead. Why isn't this still the norm?
  - andybak 3y ago
    The ascent of SPA frameworks and the inexorable allure of "Development by CV".

andybak 3y ago

You're a web developer but your mental map of the web consists of "documents" on one end and "applications like a video game, video/audio/level/text editor(s)" on the other? You haven't in your career, stumbled across web (sites/apps) that sit somewhere on the spectrum between the extremes of "document" vs "app"? It strikes me that there's a fairly even distribution between those two points - even if we discount all the misguided "could have been a static site but someone decided it had to be an app" decisions. I actually agree with you on reigning in javascript but I think much of the web is poorer without it. We had an answer for this years back and it was called "progressive enhancement".

simion314 3y ago
Most links we opened daily are to read stuff not to interact with stuff, either read documentation, read news, read some social media page. Those pages should be readable without scripting but for some reason they do not load at all without JS.
- andybak 3y ago
  Yes. That was the bit where I mentioned "progressive enhancement".
thedaly 3y ago
> Progressive enhancement is a strategy in web design that puts emphasis on web content first, allowing everyone to access the basic content and functionality of a web page, whilst users with additional browser features or faster Internet access receive the enhanced version instead. Why isn't this still the norm?
- andybak 3y ago
  The ascent of SPA frameworks and the inexorable allure of "Development by CV".