12 ms·

For those that don't know - "Intel 7" is just a rebranding of what they originally called "10nm Enhanced Superfin" and "Intel 4" is a rebranding of what they we

For those that don't know - "Intel 7" is just a rebranding of what they originally called "10nm Enhanced Superfin" and "Intel 4" is a rebranding of what they were originally calling simply "7nm". The process measurements like 10nm, 7nm, etc. long ago stopped referring to any physical measurements, but now it seems the numbers in the names themselves don't even relate to the fake marketing names used for the process nodes. So Intel 4 refers to a 7nm node (not 4/5) in which nothing is actually 7nm.

phkahler 3y ago
Also, isn't Intel 7 a non-EUV node? It will be very interesting when they get on a real EUV process.
- sidkshatriya 3y ago
  Yes, pretty sure Intel 7 is non-EUV. Is Intel 4 a EUV node ?
  - adrian_b 3y ago
    Intel 4, which will be a very short-lived node that is likely to be used for a single Intel product, i.e. Meteor Lake, is advertised as being the first Intel process that uses EUV. The next Intel products, i.e. the server CPUs Sierra Forest and Granite Rapids, which will be launched in 2024, will use the Intel 3 CMOS process. Like also when they have launched their 14 nm and 10 nm (a.k.a. Intel 7) processes, Intel has difficulties in obtaining on the new process clock frequencies as high as in their previous mature process, which is why they had to use Raptor Lake Refresh for desktops and restrict Meteor Lake to laptops (like when 10-nm Ice Lake was paired with 14-nm Comet Lake). With the previous 14 nm and 10 nm processes, eventually Intel has succeeded to reach very high clock frequencies after many years of tuning and tweaking the processes. With Intel 4 they will not have the opportunity to do the same, because they will pass immediately to another process node, since that is their only chance to recover a part of the advance that TSMC has over them.
4star3star 3y ago
I'm surprised to learn that "nm" doesn't really mean a thing to any manufacturer. At this rate, they'll be in the negatives if they want to keep going like this.
wmf 3y ago
Yes and no. Intel 7 is equivalent to TSMC N7. Intel 4 may be better than TSMC N4.
jcranmer 3y ago
The "nm" hasn't meant anything physical for a long while. However, Intel's 14nm was generally comparable not to TSMC's 14nm but TSMC's 10nm, and Intel's 10nm to TSMC's 7nm. When Intel was running two nodes ahead, this naming disparity wasn't a marketing issue, because Intel 14nm (=TSMC 10nm) was still competing with TSMC 22nm. After Intel face-planted, it became a liability, so the nodes were renamed to match industry expectations. So Intel 4 is broadly comparable to TSMC N4.
- suprjami 3y ago
  So many numbers these days are just a marketing pissing match. Browser versions come to mind. I'm on version 118. Which browser? All of them.

phkahler 3y ago

Also, isn't Intel 7 a non-EUV node? It will be very interesting when they get on a real EUV process.

sidkshatriya 3y ago
Yes, pretty sure Intel 7 is non-EUV. Is Intel 4 a EUV node ?
- adrian_b 3y ago
  Intel 4, which will be a very short-lived node that is likely to be used for a single Intel product, i.e. Meteor Lake, is advertised as being the first Intel process that uses EUV. The next Intel products, i.e. the server CPUs Sierra Forest and Granite Rapids, which will be launched in 2024, will use the Intel 3 CMOS process. Like also when they have launched their 14 nm and 10 nm (a.k.a. Intel 7) processes, Intel has difficulties in obtaining on the new process clock frequencies as high as in their previous mature process, which is why they had to use Raptor Lake Refresh for desktops and restrict Meteor Lake to laptops (like when 10-nm Ice Lake was paired with 14-nm Comet Lake). With the previous 14 nm and 10 nm processes, eventually Intel has succeeded to reach very high clock frequencies after many years of tuning and tweaking the processes. With Intel 4 they will not have the opportunity to do the same, because they will pass immediately to another process node, since that is their only chance to recover a part of the advance that TSMC has over them.

4star3star 3y ago

I'm surprised to learn that "nm" doesn't really mean a thing to any manufacturer. At this rate, they'll be in the negatives if they want to keep going like this.

wmf 3y ago

Yes and no. Intel 7 is equivalent to TSMC N7. Intel 4 may be better than TSMC N4.

jcranmer 3y ago

The "nm" hasn't meant anything physical for a long while. However, Intel's 14nm was generally comparable not to TSMC's 14nm but TSMC's 10nm, and Intel's 10nm to TSMC's 7nm. When Intel was running two nodes ahead, this naming disparity wasn't a marketing issue, because Intel 14nm (=TSMC 10nm) was still competing with TSMC 22nm. After Intel face-planted, it became a liability, so the nodes were renamed to match industry expectations. So Intel 4 is broadly comparable to TSMC N4.

suprjami 3y ago
So many numbers these days are just a marketing pissing match. Browser versions come to mind. I'm on version 118. Which browser? All of them.