4 ms·

That's pretty funny coming from a service that seems to push the opposite every time I experiment with starting with a blank-slate account/session. It only take

That's pretty funny coming from a service that seems to push the opposite every time I experiment with starting with a blank-slate account/session. It only takes about two clicks and I'm seeing conspiracy videos all about the WEF the UN and great replacement and so on. Never been a fan of the "MSM" as they call it, but the "opposite" is seemingly worse. I'd opt for neither? To me the problem with YouTube and similar systems seems to be the whole idea of click/impression-based ranking and funding. It creates awful incentives. Funding sources for independent, ethical, journalism is what we need.

seanw444 3y ago
Independent, ethical journalism that doesn't tell you about potential conspiracies because you have an aversion to them? Conspiracies happen. I will bet my life that there are plenty of major ones going on now, that we'll only possibly learn of in the coming decades.
- jjk166 3y ago
  Independent, ethical journalism should present evidence they have found in their investigations, not regurgitate the speculations of anyone with a few twitter followers. Any conspiracy theory that does wind up being true will survive any attempt to debunk it.
maxehmookau 3y ago
I agree, but also don't be too quick to discount the "MSM". Sure, they're big organisations that are open to bribery and corruption like any other; but the people they employ are generally decent journalists trying to do their jobs as well as anyone else.
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  I don't disagree fully, though I have a special loathing for American "MSM"; as a Canadian I can't watch e.g. CNN without my gag reflex kicking in. The presentation style, glibness, and superficiality is ridiculous. From the outside, it's just Fox News for smug US liberals instead of crazy radical conservatives.
  - maxehmookau 3y ago
    Yeah, I guess my perspective is very British. The BBC is complained about fairly equally from all sides, so I count them as fairly unbiased most of the time. You're right though, American cable news on all sides is unpleasant to watch.
    - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
      American MSM / cable news media has the same coverage style as their sports media. In many ways their political culture is just team sports, NFL, but transposed into another domestic sphere. It's weird though how Americans you'd think would know better don't always see this. Was hanging out at a friend's house in the US, he tossed on CNN and I made comments to the effect of what garbage it was, and he got really defensive; as if the only alternative to that ... was Fox news and Trumpy Republicans. I think many US "liberals" just feel continually under siege, and deep in a culture war, and everything is just absolutely binary "my side" vs "your side." But it's imho a trap. E.g. the same friend just can't comprehend that we have a 3rd (social democratic, left wing) party here in Canada. To him it's just "splitting the vote" and we should all just be voting Trudeau to stop the evil Conservative horde. Because that's the corner US politics has been backed into. Completely tribal, team-sports, football metaphor pasted over everything. (And it keeps getting exported up here.)
ryandrake 3y ago
Surprised you're getting pummeled for this comment. What you're asking for is totally reasonable: An actual, non-insane alternative to the mainstream media. One that's factual, evidence-driven and research-driven. Current "alternatives" seem to all have the same problem: They quickly become crackpots in print form. This seems to be what happens any time someone creates "the Alternative to Mainstream Site X" and "the Free Speech Version of Social Media Site Y": The cast-offs of the mainstream become their audience, and the site quickly devolves into conspiracies, hate, Qanon, Holocaust Denial, Flat Earth... the whole loony bin. There seems to be no way to stop it.
- cmrdporcupine 3y ago
  Unfortunately hackernews has become a bit of a destination for people with far right conspiracy-oriented feelings in the last couple years. They're not the majority, but they're here. It's either a new milieux, or an existing libertarian-capitalist/Ayn-Randy segment whose opinions moved in this direction during COVID. I'm used to the downvotes on anything like this where this kind of thing comes up. The "mistake" is implying that vaccine-skeptics or far right conspiracy theorists or actual-neo-NAZIS are baddies It always gets downvotes. It usually rebounds later once more eyes are on the topic, though.

seanw444 3y ago

Independent, ethical journalism that doesn't tell you about potential conspiracies because you have an aversion to them? Conspiracies happen. I will bet my life that there are plenty of major ones going on now, that we'll only possibly learn of in the coming decades.

jjk166 3y ago
Independent, ethical journalism should present evidence they have found in their investigations, not regurgitate the speculations of anyone with a few twitter followers. Any conspiracy theory that does wind up being true will survive any attempt to debunk it.

maxehmookau 3y ago

I agree, but also don't be too quick to discount the "MSM". Sure, they're big organisations that are open to bribery and corruption like any other; but the people they employ are generally decent journalists trying to do their jobs as well as anyone else.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago
I don't disagree fully, though I have a special loathing for American "MSM"; as a Canadian I can't watch e.g. CNN without my gag reflex kicking in. The presentation style, glibness, and superficiality is ridiculous. From the outside, it's just Fox News for smug US liberals instead of crazy radical conservatives.
- maxehmookau 3y ago
  Yeah, I guess my perspective is very British. The BBC is complained about fairly equally from all sides, so I count them as fairly unbiased most of the time. You're right though, American cable news on all sides is unpleasant to watch.
  - cmrdporcupine 3y ago
    American MSM / cable news media has the same coverage style as their sports media. In many ways their political culture is just team sports, NFL, but transposed into another domestic sphere. It's weird though how Americans you'd think would know better don't always see this. Was hanging out at a friend's house in the US, he tossed on CNN and I made comments to the effect of what garbage it was, and he got really defensive; as if the only alternative to that ... was Fox news and Trumpy Republicans. I think many US "liberals" just feel continually under siege, and deep in a culture war, and everything is just absolutely binary "my side" vs "your side." But it's imho a trap. E.g. the same friend just can't comprehend that we have a 3rd (social democratic, left wing) party here in Canada. To him it's just "splitting the vote" and we should all just be voting Trudeau to stop the evil Conservative horde. Because that's the corner US politics has been backed into. Completely tribal, team-sports, football metaphor pasted over everything. (And it keeps getting exported up here.)

ryandrake 3y ago

Surprised you're getting pummeled for this comment. What you're asking for is totally reasonable: An actual, non-insane alternative to the mainstream media. One that's factual, evidence-driven and research-driven. Current "alternatives" seem to all have the same problem: They quickly become crackpots in print form. This seems to be what happens any time someone creates "the Alternative to Mainstream Site X" and "the Free Speech Version of Social Media Site Y": The cast-offs of the mainstream become their audience, and the site quickly devolves into conspiracies, hate, Qanon, Holocaust Denial, Flat Earth... the whole loony bin. There seems to be no way to stop it.

cmrdporcupine 3y ago
Unfortunately hackernews has become a bit of a destination for people with far right conspiracy-oriented feelings in the last couple years. They're not the majority, but they're here. It's either a new milieux, or an existing libertarian-capitalist/Ayn-Randy segment whose opinions moved in this direction during COVID. I'm used to the downvotes on anything like this where this kind of thing comes up. The "mistake" is implying that vaccine-skeptics or far right conspiracy theorists or actual-neo-NAZIS are baddies It always gets downvotes. It usually rebounds later once more eyes are on the topic, though.