6 ms·

Couldn't you say the same about undersea pipeline which did get attacked?

by LunaSea 3y ago

ImHereToVote 3y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGk1si6dOKU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGk1si6dOKU
- dmix 3y ago
  Attempting to stop an incomplete pipeline commercial deal that the US was already protesting long before the war is different than bombing an existing pipeline involving one of NATOs most important members, on sea territory of another NATO member, just because a war started. It’s plausible but highly unlikely. The evidence points to Ukrainian saboteurs on a rented yacht anyway.
  - DontchaKnowit 3y ago
    [flagged]
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      > Biden literally said on camera that if Russia invades Ukraine, the US would blow up the pipeline. This is a lie. The actual quote is: "There will be no longer be a Nord Stream 2. We will put an end to it." They successfully did so well before the explosions; its certification was suspended in February, and the company was insolvent by March. https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/exclusive-nord-stream-2-owner-considers-insolvency-after-pipeline-halt-sanctions-2022-03-01/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/exclusive-nord-stream... Blowing something up isn't the only way to get rid of something (just ask the mice formerly inhabiting my basement); the actual quote can easily be read as "we'll sanction them and anyone else who does business with them into the stone age".
      - miroljub 3y ago
        > The actual quote is: "There will be no longer be a Nord Stream 2. We will put an end to it." There is a saying: "The emperor only has to hint, the wealthy can order, and the robber must kill." So yes, someone interpreted the hint and gave an order, so someone did it.
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        There's no doubt someone gave an order. What's in question is who, and the list of people with means, motive, and opportunity is fairly long, including the option of a false flag operation. Claiming Biden "literally" promised to blow it up is a clear falsehood.
        miroljub 3y ago
        > Claiming Biden "literally" promised to blow it up is a clear falsehood. You want to say that the video where he gives a promise that he "has means" and "will find a way" to stop the pipeline is a deep fake?
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        It's not a deep fake. It (ahem) literally doesn't say what's asserted upthread. "Sanctions" are means and a way to stop something. The West ended Nord Stream 2 by March of 2022; the company went into insolvency, fired its workers, had its pipeline decertified, and was sanctioned into the ground. Politicians use this sort of language regularly. For example: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4227533-trump-campaign-calls-on-rnc-to-put-an-end-to-future-debates/ https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4227533-trump-campaign... > Trump campaign calls on RNC to ‘put an end’ to future debates to ‘train our fire’ on Biden Is Trump proposing blowing up the debate venue? Obviously not.
        hef19898 3y ago
        And the commander in chief of the world's strongest military does this on TV? And not through, I don't know, existing channels, official and otherwise?
    - petre 3y ago
      He said something in the lines of "there will be no longer a North Stream 2, we will bring an end to it". He did not say how, just "I promise you we'll be able to do it". https://m.youtube.com/shorts/FVbEoZXhCrM https://m.youtube.com/shorts/FVbEoZXhCrM
scythe 3y ago
I don't think that's very comparable. First, pipelines are much less common than cables, so the opportunity for retaliation in kind is less. Second, pipelines only go through relatively shallow waters; cables run across the ocean, so the type of attacks used are different. Third, whoever attacked the pipeline is concerned sufficiently about retaliation that they disguised their actions (by injuring both Russian and German interests) and denied responsibility. By contrast, this harms the West exclusively (Estonia is strongly pro-Western, and speaks a Finnic language), and if it were confirmed that the cable was attacked, the culprit is clear.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

Couldn't you say the same about undersea pipeline which did get attacked?

ImHereToVote 3y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGk1si6dOKU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGk1si6dOKU

dmix 3y ago
Attempting to stop an incomplete pipeline commercial deal that the US was already protesting long before the war is different than bombing an existing pipeline involving one of NATOs most important members, on sea territory of another NATO member, just because a war started. It’s plausible but highly unlikely. The evidence points to Ukrainian saboteurs on a rented yacht anyway.
- DontchaKnowit 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    > Biden literally said on camera that if Russia invades Ukraine, the US would blow up the pipeline. This is a lie. The actual quote is: "There will be no longer be a Nord Stream 2. We will put an end to it." They successfully did so well before the explosions; its certification was suspended in February, and the company was insolvent by March. https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/exclusive-nord-stream-2-owner-considers-insolvency-after-pipeline-halt-sanctions-2022-03-01/ https://www.reuters.com/markets/europe/exclusive-nord-stream... Blowing something up isn't the only way to get rid of something (just ask the mice formerly inhabiting my basement); the actual quote can easily be read as "we'll sanction them and anyone else who does business with them into the stone age".
    - miroljub 3y ago
      > The actual quote is: "There will be no longer be a Nord Stream 2. We will put an end to it." There is a saying: "The emperor only has to hint, the wealthy can order, and the robber must kill." So yes, someone interpreted the hint and gave an order, so someone did it.
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        There's no doubt someone gave an order. What's in question is who, and the list of people with means, motive, and opportunity is fairly long, including the option of a false flag operation. Claiming Biden "literally" promised to blow it up is a clear falsehood.
        miroljub 3y ago
        > Claiming Biden "literally" promised to blow it up is a clear falsehood. You want to say that the video where he gives a promise that he "has means" and "will find a way" to stop the pipeline is a deep fake?
        ceejayoz 3y ago
        It's not a deep fake. It (ahem) literally doesn't say what's asserted upthread. "Sanctions" are means and a way to stop something. The West ended Nord Stream 2 by March of 2022; the company went into insolvency, fired its workers, had its pipeline decertified, and was sanctioned into the ground. Politicians use this sort of language regularly. For example: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4227533-trump-campaign-calls-on-rnc-to-put-an-end-to-future-debates/ https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4227533-trump-campaign... > Trump campaign calls on RNC to ‘put an end’ to future debates to ‘train our fire’ on Biden Is Trump proposing blowing up the debate venue? Obviously not.
      - hef19898 3y ago
        And the commander in chief of the world's strongest military does this on TV? And not through, I don't know, existing channels, official and otherwise?
  - petre 3y ago
    He said something in the lines of "there will be no longer a North Stream 2, we will bring an end to it". He did not say how, just "I promise you we'll be able to do it". https://m.youtube.com/shorts/FVbEoZXhCrM https://m.youtube.com/shorts/FVbEoZXhCrM

scythe 3y ago

I don't think that's very comparable. First, pipelines are much less common than cables, so the opportunity for retaliation in kind is less. Second, pipelines only go through relatively shallow waters; cables run across the ocean, so the type of attacks used are different. Third, whoever attacked the pipeline is concerned sufficiently about retaliation that they disguised their actions (by injuring both Russian and German interests) and denied responsibility. By contrast, this harms the West exclusively (Estonia is strongly pro-Western, and speaks a Finnic language), and if it were confirmed that the cable was attacked, the culprit is clear.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]