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I'd also like to bring up why downvoted comments are increasingly dimmed? It is very difficult to read them. If the idea is to discourage users from reading the

I'd also like to bring up why downvoted comments are increasingly dimmed? It is very difficult to read them. If the idea is to discourage users from reading them, why not just remove them after a few downvotes.

wongarsu 3y ago
They are removed after a few downvotes, unless you turn on showdead in your profile
- cipheredStones 3y ago
  There's a difference between downvoted posts and dead posts, I believe: > What does [dead] mean? > The post was killed by software, user flags, or moderators. > Dead posts aren't displayed by default, but you can see them all by turning on 'showdead' in your profile.
  - topaz0 3y ago
    But many downvotes is one of the main ways that they get picked to kill by "software, user flags, or moderators".
- gnicholas 3y ago
  Is this true? I thought dead was the result of flagging, not mere downvotes.
cipheredStones 3y ago
This is one of HN's best features, IMO. Bad comments literally become less visible, in proportion to how bad they are, but without actually stopping anyone from reading them or leaving a context hole if someone makes a good reply.
- worthless-trash 3y ago
  "Bad" as in HN disagrees with, not "Bad" against the rules or incorrect.
  - worthless-trash 3y ago
    Gotta keep groupthinking right HN ?
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
swayvil 3y ago
It's censorship by hivemind. (popular in much social media. A kind of crowdsourced moderation) The hivemind censors any opinion in discord with its own. Which is one path to harmony and peace. But at what price?
- aurizon 3y ago
  Also called online group bullying, old time religions called it shunning, old UK unions called it 'sending to Coventry', ostracise, ghost = a way to harm people by collective and deniable group action.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - swayvil 3y ago
    Mammalian tribe-forming automation?
- jamincan 3y ago
  Removing the post entirely would be censorship. That's not what's happening.
  - raincole 3y ago
    But HN also removes comments that are flagged too many times, unless you turn on showdead. So yeah, censorship by hivemind is the proper description (by your definition).
- worthless-trash 3y ago
  You're already grey friend.
- Bjartr 3y ago
  By the literal definition of censorship, you are correct. HN, and most social media, make decisions about what gets shown and what doesn't. Any filtering, moderation, or removal of any content where the goal is to make things better (and so implies the removed item was in the way of good) is technically censorship. Even the likes of spam filtering is censorship. It is removal of objectionable content after all. But there's connotations to the term censorship that make it carry a stronger implied moral, or indeed political, judgement than terms like "filter" in contexts like this one. Maybe that's exactly what you wanted to communicate. However, as phrased, it's more likely to get a knee-jerk downvote rather than a reasoned response. Which is exactly why I chose to respond, I'd rather see a discussion on the topic rather than either your comment being ignored or removed. After all, that's why I come to HN, it censors in favor of discourse, and though it's imperfect, it does far better in practice than any other site I know of.
ben_w 3y ago
Discourage is different from preventing; there have been a few times when I've noticed controversial comments bouncing between grey and black, including some when they've been mine and I can therefore see the net karma directly. Purely subjectively, I think low contrast also makes it harder to get annoyed when noticing Someone Is Wrong On The Internet, without also feeling (so strongly) disengaged when I think a low contrast comment has good point.
- r3trohack3r 3y ago
  This is one of those things I wish surfaced in the UI: polarized votes vs. consensus votes. I actually really like the dimmed blocks of text for highly downvoted content. But I've made a few comments that were _extremely_ controversial and oscillated wildly a few points up or down over the course of an hour. Once I noticed what was happening, I started refreshing out of curiosity to see how wild the oscillations were. It seemed like the comment was getting hundreds of votes, but staying around a total point count of 10. A comment with a point count of 10 and a total of 10 votes signals something very different than a comment with a point count of 10 and a total of 500 votes.
ninkendo 3y ago
If you click the timestamp (permalink) of the post to open it in its own page, you'll see it in full contrast. This is the workaround for when you literally can't read it any more.
SoftTalker 3y ago
If I ever want to read dimmed text on HN, I just highlight it with my mouse. Then it shows up quite well.

wongarsu 3y ago

They are removed after a few downvotes, unless you turn on showdead in your profile

cipheredStones 3y ago
There's a difference between downvoted posts and dead posts, I believe: > What does [dead] mean? > The post was killed by software, user flags, or moderators. > Dead posts aren't displayed by default, but you can see them all by turning on 'showdead' in your profile.
- topaz0 3y ago
  But many downvotes is one of the main ways that they get picked to kill by "software, user flags, or moderators".
gnicholas 3y ago
Is this true? I thought dead was the result of flagging, not mere downvotes.

cipheredStones 3y ago

This is one of HN's best features, IMO. Bad comments literally become less visible, in proportion to how bad they are, but without actually stopping anyone from reading them or leaving a context hole if someone makes a good reply.

worthless-trash 3y ago
"Bad" as in HN disagrees with, not "Bad" against the rules or incorrect.
- worthless-trash 3y ago
  Gotta keep groupthinking right HN ?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

swayvil 3y ago

It's censorship by hivemind. (popular in much social media. A kind of crowdsourced moderation) The hivemind censors any opinion in discord with its own. Which is one path to harmony and peace. But at what price?

aurizon 3y ago
Also called online group bullying, old time religions called it shunning, old UK unions called it 'sending to Coventry', ostracise, ghost = a way to harm people by collective and deniable group action.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- swayvil 3y ago
  Mammalian tribe-forming automation?
jamincan 3y ago
Removing the post entirely would be censorship. That's not what's happening.
- raincole 3y ago
  But HN also removes comments that are flagged too many times, unless you turn on showdead. So yeah, censorship by hivemind is the proper description (by your definition).
worthless-trash 3y ago
You're already grey friend.
Bjartr 3y ago
By the literal definition of censorship, you are correct. HN, and most social media, make decisions about what gets shown and what doesn't. Any filtering, moderation, or removal of any content where the goal is to make things better (and so implies the removed item was in the way of good) is technically censorship. Even the likes of spam filtering is censorship. It is removal of objectionable content after all. But there's connotations to the term censorship that make it carry a stronger implied moral, or indeed political, judgement than terms like "filter" in contexts like this one. Maybe that's exactly what you wanted to communicate. However, as phrased, it's more likely to get a knee-jerk downvote rather than a reasoned response. Which is exactly why I chose to respond, I'd rather see a discussion on the topic rather than either your comment being ignored or removed. After all, that's why I come to HN, it censors in favor of discourse, and though it's imperfect, it does far better in practice than any other site I know of.

ben_w 3y ago

Discourage is different from preventing; there have been a few times when I've noticed controversial comments bouncing between grey and black, including some when they've been mine and I can therefore see the net karma directly. Purely subjectively, I think low contrast also makes it harder to get annoyed when noticing Someone Is Wrong On The Internet, without also feeling (so strongly) disengaged when I think a low contrast comment has good point.

r3trohack3r 3y ago
This is one of those things I wish surfaced in the UI: polarized votes vs. consensus votes. I actually really like the dimmed blocks of text for highly downvoted content. But I've made a few comments that were _extremely_ controversial and oscillated wildly a few points up or down over the course of an hour. Once I noticed what was happening, I started refreshing out of curiosity to see how wild the oscillations were. It seemed like the comment was getting hundreds of votes, but staying around a total point count of 10. A comment with a point count of 10 and a total of 10 votes signals something very different than a comment with a point count of 10 and a total of 500 votes.

ninkendo 3y ago

If you click the timestamp (permalink) of the post to open it in its own page, you'll see it in full contrast. This is the workaround for when you literally can't read it any more.

SoftTalker 3y ago

If I ever want to read dimmed text on HN, I just highlight it with my mouse. Then it shows up quite well.