3 ms·

This is a dupe, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31601472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31601472, from 2022. Also, whether you support Israel as

This is a dupe, see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31601472 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31601472, from 2022. Also, whether you support Israel as defending themselves, or consider Israeli actions a form of genocide, language matters. By using the term Apartheid I interpreted this as an unconscious attempt to marginalize the efforts and sacrifices made by those who fought against Apartheid in South Africa, including Nelson Mandela and many others - in order to increase emotional response for your cause. I am sure that is not what you intended, but in communication perception is as important as intention, if not more so. So I ask that we all keep Apartheid to mean the struggle against racism, segregation and hatred that Nelson Mandela and his people fought hard to win. Instead, come up with a new word. For example Apartheid means 'Separation. The Arabic word for "separation" is ﻓِﺮَﺍﻕ (pronounced "firaaq"). Firaaq could be the word to uniquely mean what is happening in Palestine, as Apartheid is for South Africa. Or use a Hebrew word (Apartheid was Afrikaaner IIRC), such as Hafrada, which is the Hebrew word for "separation". It can also mean "segregation". By using a unique word close in cultural context to the events you create something that you can attach unique meaning to, and generate support against.

aa-jv 3y ago
>keep Apartheid to mean the struggle against racism, segregation and hatred that Nelson Mandela and his people fought hard to win. Just no. This is an entirely appropriate term and Israel doesn't need to re-brand it in order to escape the association with previous examples. South Africa moved on from its apartheid problem. Israel needs to, also. Keep this word in use, as it is entirely accurate and appropriate to be using this term. It doesn't matter if Israeli citizens are embarassed by it - they should be embarassed for the conditions of their state.
avgcorrection 3y ago
> I interpreted this as an unconscious attempt to marginalize the efforts and sacrifices made by those who fought against Apartheid in South Africa, including Nelson Mandela and many others - in order to increase emotional response for your cause. Nelson mandela HIMSELF called the Israel situation “Apartheid”.
- drooby 3y ago
  Citation needed. My research indicates this is false information.
  - aa-jv 3y ago
    Edit: It was his grandson: Addressing a large audience, Mandela said that the Nation-State Law passed in 2018 declaring Israel to be the historical homeland of the Jewish people “confirmed what we have always known to be the true character and reality of Israel: Israel is an apartheid state”.
    - drooby 3y ago
      You’re quoting his grandson…Mandela died in 2013
      - johnnyworker 3y ago
        > "As I listened to the Arab League and as I listened to colleagues from Palestine, its sounds like this plan has been consulted without all the people that matter and it sounds like a Bantustan type of construct." -- https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/nelson-mandela-30-years-palestine https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/nelson-mandela-30-years-p...
        drooby 3y ago
        ??? You’re quoting the South African President Cyril Ramaphosa who spoke in 2020. Again, Mandela died in 2013. It is not in contention that Mandela supported Palestinians. Though I cannot find evidence that he referred to the Israel conflict as apartheid.
        johnnyworker 3y ago
        You're right, I hadn't noticed, thanks for pointing it out. I looked some more and found nothing. Criticism of Israel, yes, but not using that exact word. https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/50771/did-nelson-mandela-directly-compare-or-accuse-israel-of-apartheid https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/50771/did-nelso...
SenAnder 3y ago
A Jew from New York can immigrate to Israel, get citizenship, and live on land a Palestinian whose family lived there for centuries was expelled from. Can you explain how 'apartheid' is not an accurate description? It's understandable if you were unaware - unlike South Africa, it gets little attention in the news: https://theintercept.com/2022/09/29/hill-tv-israel-apartheid-rashida-tlaib-censorship/ https://theintercept.com/2022/09/29/hill-tv-israel-apartheid...

aa-jv 3y ago

>keep Apartheid to mean the struggle against racism, segregation and hatred that Nelson Mandela and his people fought hard to win. Just no. This is an entirely appropriate term and Israel doesn't need to re-brand it in order to escape the association with previous examples. South Africa moved on from its apartheid problem. Israel needs to, also. Keep this word in use, as it is entirely accurate and appropriate to be using this term. It doesn't matter if Israeli citizens are embarassed by it - they should be embarassed for the conditions of their state.

avgcorrection 3y ago

> I interpreted this as an unconscious attempt to marginalize the efforts and sacrifices made by those who fought against Apartheid in South Africa, including Nelson Mandela and many others - in order to increase emotional response for your cause. Nelson mandela HIMSELF called the Israel situation “Apartheid”.

drooby 3y ago
Citation needed. My research indicates this is false information.
- aa-jv 3y ago
  Edit: It was his grandson: Addressing a large audience, Mandela said that the Nation-State Law passed in 2018 declaring Israel to be the historical homeland of the Jewish people “confirmed what we have always known to be the true character and reality of Israel: Israel is an apartheid state”.
  - drooby 3y ago
    You’re quoting his grandson…Mandela died in 2013
    - johnnyworker 3y ago
      > "As I listened to the Arab League and as I listened to colleagues from Palestine, its sounds like this plan has been consulted without all the people that matter and it sounds like a Bantustan type of construct." -- https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/nelson-mandela-30-years-palestine https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/nelson-mandela-30-years-p...
      - drooby 3y ago
        ??? You’re quoting the South African President Cyril Ramaphosa who spoke in 2020. Again, Mandela died in 2013. It is not in contention that Mandela supported Palestinians. Though I cannot find evidence that he referred to the Israel conflict as apartheid.
        johnnyworker 3y ago
        You're right, I hadn't noticed, thanks for pointing it out. I looked some more and found nothing. Criticism of Israel, yes, but not using that exact word. https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/50771/did-nelson-mandela-directly-compare-or-accuse-israel-of-apartheid https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/50771/did-nelso...

SenAnder 3y ago

A Jew from New York can immigrate to Israel, get citizenship, and live on land a Palestinian whose family lived there for centuries was expelled from. Can you explain how 'apartheid' is not an accurate description? It's understandable if you were unaware - unlike South Africa, it gets little attention in the news: https://theintercept.com/2022/09/29/hill-tv-israel-apartheid-rashida-tlaib-censorship/ https://theintercept.com/2022/09/29/hill-tv-israel-apartheid...