4 ms·

> Israel does its best to avoid civilian casualties If true, then Israel's "best" is not very good, because Israel has already made far more civilian casualtie

by mcv 3y ago

> Israel does its best to avoid civilian casualties If true, then Israel's "best" is not very good, because Israel has already made far more civilian casualties than Hamas over the past couple of days. And also over the past 2 decades. No, I don't think Israel is doing its best. At best, they're paying lip service to the idea of avoiding civilian casualties, but it's pretty clear that to many people in Israel, including military and civilian leadership, the lives of Palestinian civilians aren't worth much. It is true that Hamas tries to kill as many civilians as possible, and in that sense they are undoubtedly the more evil party (but evil does not justify more evil), but the reason Hamas does that, is to provoke exactly this kind of overly brutal retaliation from Israel. Because then more Palestinians will be confronted by their kids and neighbours being massacred by Israel, and they will be radicalised and willing to take up arms to avenge their family. And Israel obliges. In this sense, Israel is helping Hamas, enabling their recruitment, and keeping them alive. If Israel really wants peace, an end to this violence, and avoiding civilian casualties, then they must be massive idiots, because they are instrumental in keeping the violence going, and Hamas is playing them like a fiddle. Note that the real leadership of Hamas is not in Gaza at all, but in Qatar.

raxxorraxor 3y ago
> the lives of Palestinian civilians aren't worth much. True, a decade long conflict takes its toll, messages that advocate genocide do also influence opinion. And still I think Israel puts more value on Palestinian life than the martyrs attacking it. Also, Israels military tactics are quite "unbloody" compared to other conflicts, i.e. Syria, where there is deployment of sarin gas on civilians. The Palestinian population is played like a fiddle. I don't think Hamas is too happy with the current results of their aggression.
- mcv 3y ago
  > Also, Israels military tactics are quite "unbloody" compared to other conflicts, i.e. Syria, where there is deployment of sarin gas on civilians. Is that your standard? Before this new escalation, Israel had killed 14,212 Palestinians since 2000. I'd say that's pretty bloody. But we should be happy that they're not actively gassing all Palestinians... > I don't think Hamas is too happy with the current results of their aggression. Why not?
  - raxxorraxor 3y ago
    They did bite the hand that feeds them and are now without power and supplies, a situation of their own making. This is exclusively on them with Israel being innocent. Perhaps they should tune down trying to ethnically cleanse Jews, maybe a bit of success can come back into their lives. "Palestine" launched over 10,000 rockets in the last 20 years and Israel defending itself is only right.
    - mcv 3y ago
      I think you're confusing Hamas with Palestinians. They're not the same thing. Palestinians are without power and supplies. Hamas got to bloody Israel's nose and has lots of newly radicalised Palestinians to recruit from. Equating the two betrays a deep misunderstanding of what's going on. Hamas leadership is apparently living in Qatar an not inconvenienced in the slightest by Israel's response; to the contrary, I suspect.
      - raxxorraxor 3y ago
        I don't think this is a misunderstanding. There is a lot of plain antisemitism coming to the surface in recent days and it is not restricted to Hamas. The reporting about the hospital attack a few days ago lead to synagogues over the world being under attack. And no, this is not something that came into existence at the same time as Israel, the hatred predates that. This is not enough to condemn Palestinians as a whole, but this is a war for survival and in any war there will be casualties. This is something the attacker has to take into account. And they know that fully well, it is part of their strategy. Contrary to common wisdom that you should never negotiate with terrorists, Israel actually does that. That behavior has kept casualties to a minimum. Expecting more is unrealistic and very few countries would take the long road here. To keep casualties to a minimum in any future conflict, there needs to be a push by Palestinians to condemn terrorist attacks or similar reactions will be a necessity.

by mcv 3y ago

raxxorraxor 3y ago

> the lives of Palestinian civilians aren't worth much. True, a decade long conflict takes its toll, messages that advocate genocide do also influence opinion. And still I think Israel puts more value on Palestinian life than the martyrs attacking it. Also, Israels military tactics are quite "unbloody" compared to other conflicts, i.e. Syria, where there is deployment of sarin gas on civilians. The Palestinian population is played like a fiddle. I don't think Hamas is too happy with the current results of their aggression.

mcv 3y ago
> Also, Israels military tactics are quite "unbloody" compared to other conflicts, i.e. Syria, where there is deployment of sarin gas on civilians. Is that your standard? Before this new escalation, Israel had killed 14,212 Palestinians since 2000. I'd say that's pretty bloody. But we should be happy that they're not actively gassing all Palestinians... > I don't think Hamas is too happy with the current results of their aggression. Why not?
- raxxorraxor 3y ago
  They did bite the hand that feeds them and are now without power and supplies, a situation of their own making. This is exclusively on them with Israel being innocent. Perhaps they should tune down trying to ethnically cleanse Jews, maybe a bit of success can come back into their lives. "Palestine" launched over 10,000 rockets in the last 20 years and Israel defending itself is only right.
  - mcv 3y ago
    I think you're confusing Hamas with Palestinians. They're not the same thing. Palestinians are without power and supplies. Hamas got to bloody Israel's nose and has lots of newly radicalised Palestinians to recruit from. Equating the two betrays a deep misunderstanding of what's going on. Hamas leadership is apparently living in Qatar an not inconvenienced in the slightest by Israel's response; to the contrary, I suspect.
    - raxxorraxor 3y ago
      I don't think this is a misunderstanding. There is a lot of plain antisemitism coming to the surface in recent days and it is not restricted to Hamas. The reporting about the hospital attack a few days ago lead to synagogues over the world being under attack. And no, this is not something that came into existence at the same time as Israel, the hatred predates that. This is not enough to condemn Palestinians as a whole, but this is a war for survival and in any war there will be casualties. This is something the attacker has to take into account. And they know that fully well, it is part of their strategy. Contrary to common wisdom that you should never negotiate with terrorists, Israel actually does that. That behavior has kept casualties to a minimum. Expecting more is unrealistic and very few countries would take the long road here. To keep casualties to a minimum in any future conflict, there needs to be a push by Palestinians to condemn terrorist attacks or similar reactions will be a necessity.