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What this article missed and most reactions also did: one name in the "Patron Saints" section. One name that should give you pause and even alarm over this and
by chx 3y ago
What this article missed and most reactions also did: one name in the "Patron Saints" section. One name that should give you pause and even alarm over this and should give you a new angle to investigate this bullshit from.
That name is Filippo Tommaso Marinetti.
He was quite in the business of writing Manifestos a hundred years ago. The one he co-authored in 1919 became really (in)famous.
Edit: Vice didn't miss it. https://www.vice.com/en/article/93kg5d/major-tech-investor-calls-architect-of-fascism-a-saint-in-unhinged-manifesto https://www.vice.com/en/article/93kg5d/major-tech-investor-c...
> Other futurist thinkers and artists exist. To call Marinetti in particular a "saint" is a choice.
- clarionbell 3y agoWe need to go faster ...
- littlestymaar 3y ago“grow or die”
- nullptr_deref 3y agoReally shows where the dude is coming from if he cites such a(n) (in)famous person.
- jimnotgym 3y agoIn case it wasn't too obvious here is the wiki page... since I wasn't too familiar with him. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Tommaso_Marinetti https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filippo_Tommaso_Marinetti
- dzhiurgis 3y agoFrom wiki: > He opposed Fascism's later exaltation of existing institutions, terming them "reactionary," and, after walking out of the 1920 Fascist party congress in disgust, withdrew from politics for three years. The actual manifesto looks better than many countries have today: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Manifesto https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascist_Manifesto
- cybert 3y agoYou left out the next sentence, which reads > However, he remained a notable force in developing the party philosophy throughout the regime's existence. Not to mention his antisemitism.
- snapplebobapple 3y agoWhile not a fan of this guy, I just wanted to point out that you can't really judge the entirety of someone's work by whether they are antisemitic in the time period this guy lived in because almost everyone was antisemitic back then, including much of the USA (i.e. https://www.history.com/news/wwii-jewish-refugee-ship-st-louis-1939 https://www.history.com/news/wwii-jewish-refugee-ship-st-lou...)
- ericfrazier 3y agoMost everyone seems anti-Semitic these days too. Not much of a difference as far as I can tell.
- deepsun 3y agoNo, only small vocal anti- groups. Most of the US populace don't see a need to gather pro- demonstrations because it's obvious.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- fastball 3y agoActually, given the third paragraph from TFA, both you and the TechCrunch article seem to have Ad Hominem fallacies down pat. They just forgot one that you remembered.
- meheleventyone 3y agoNeither of these seem ad hom? Examining how someone’s wealth biases their worldview is hardly an attack on their person and pointing out that one of the architects and inspirations for Fascism is called a Patron Saint isn’t either. The latter isn’t even ‘guilty by association’ as the author freely makes that association themselves by speaking glowingly of them.
- fastball 3y agoMarc Andreessen having a biased worldview is completely irrelevant to the quality of his arguments or positions, yet the implication in the TC article is exactly that (that maybe you shouldn't take his opinions about economics and technology too seriously because he's a billionaire after all). Filippo Tommaso Marinetti is more well known as the founder of the Futurist movement, which is presumably what Andreessen is referencing here. Implying (or outright stating) that Marinetti's ideas on Futurism can be safely ignored because he also has less palatable ideas re:Fascism is a textbook example of Ad Hominem.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- chx 3y agohttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37926150 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37926150 and also check the edit of my post https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37925583 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37925583
- true_religion 3y agoMarinetti even tried to have futurism declared the state art of Italy, which would in effect suppress all other art styles. In this case it seems his views were intertwined, at least in practical application. So it’s relevant to discuss both at the same time.
- RagnarD 3y agoWhat "Patron Saints" section? Where?
- littlestymaar 3y agopage 18: “Patron Saints of Techno-Optimism”
- foul 3y agoYou're trying to derail that drug-fueled rant to Godwin, while in that list there are much more modern demons of our age: Nick Land, Neven "you don't like conservative arguments but they are right!!1" Sesardic, John Galt, Nordhaus. Nothing less of what I would expect of a pioneer in XML as main information medium and full-time conman since Ning.
- jahnu 3y agoVice seem to be the only ones who took note: https://www.vice.com/en/article/93kg5d/major-tech-investor-calls-architect-of-fascism-a-saint-in-unhinged-manifesto https://www.vice.com/en/article/93kg5d/major-tech-investor-c...
- littlestymaar 3y agoEven without accounting for the fascist manifesto, the Marinetti's 1909 manifesto[1] isn't particularly inspiring either: 9. We will glorify war − the only true hygiene of the world − militarism, patriotism, the destructive gesture of anarchist, the beautiful Ideas which kill, and the scorn of woman. Saint patron you said? [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_of_Futurism#/media/File%3ADeclarationOfFutuism-EN-1.png https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifesto_of_Futurism#/media...