3 ms·

Okay so 6% increased chance of dementia for those with ADHD. Maybe there’s something neurologically wrong from the beginning that manifests as ADHD and later t

by wincy 3y ago

Okay so 6% increased chance of dementia for those with ADHD. Maybe there’s something neurologically wrong from the beginning that manifests as ADHD and later turns into dementia? It’s definitely weird how I am just completely unmotivated by anything for months at a time then suddenly will be intensely motivated and impossibly into something new.

alfon 3y ago
I have a brain disease driven by an infection that gets better with long term antibiotics. One of my main symptoms was MCI. Interesting that after long term treatment not only the MCI improved or subsided but also my very long standing ADHD (present for as long as I can remember) got dramatically better, makes you wonder.
- SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
  “MCI”? (Not familiar)
  - zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
    Mild cognitive impairment. I googled mci adhd
- fallingknife 3y ago
  How did you find out about the long standing infection?
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  [INFO]
- crzyman 3y ago
  That actually makes a lot of sense to me. ADHD can be phrased as a regulation disorder. Emotions, executive function/ attention. If anything internal (literally any kind of pain) presents itself for my attention, it wins. No contest. I have nasty seasonal allergies (at least one per season). Whenever it flares up, the is a marked increase in my needs and decrease in my productivity. I'm hoping to start immunotherapy for them soon. I get my ADHD and my allergies from my dad and immunotherapy has done him wonders.
  - skinner927 3y ago
    Meditative techniques can assist with the regulation of emotions/attention. I speak from experience. It takes practice when you’re feeling well to be able to channel it when you’re not feeling well. It’s not as hippy-dippy as you might think (unless you want it to be). No yoga mat required.
- armatav 3y ago
  How did you discover the infection
- ce4 3y ago
  Would you mind to share what pathogen you're dealing with? In case it's tick borne, I can second your observations
jonathanleane 3y ago
It's not a 6% higher risk, it's nearly double the risk - i.e. 7% vs 13.2%. "Dementia occurred among 96 of 730 participants (13.2%) with adult ADHD and 7630 of 108 488 participants (7.0%) without adult ADHD."
- Turskarama 3y ago
  For those who might not know, this is the difference between "percentage" and "percentage points". It is not 6% higher, it is 6 percentage points higher. This really matters for things with a very low probability.
  - wutwutwat 3y ago
    > It is not 6% higher, it is 6 percentage points higher. And the difference between the two is?
    - freshpots 3y ago
      https://www.stat.fi/meta/kas/prosentti_vs__p_en.html https://www.stat.fi/meta/kas/prosentti_vs__p_en.html "Per cent means one hundredth of something. Percentage point is used when comparing percentages to one another. For example, when inflation drops from three to two per cent, inflation decreases by one percentage point and 33.3 per cent."
      - ksaj 3y ago
        This is a nice simple explanation of it. It's also why stock holders use "points" instead of "dollars." A stock share going up $1.50 is amazing if it was a penny stock, and absolutely not worth mentioning if it was say, Tesla. But the points have the same meaning for either stock - one is just a lot higher of a point than the other, even though the dollar change was the same.
    - Zecc 3y ago
      A percentage always reflects a ratio between a quantity and another reference quantity. When you say a value is 6 percent higher, you are saying it went from X to (X + X*(6/100)) = (X*106/100) = 106% of the value you had before (whatever it was). When you say it is 6 percentage points higher it means you had a percentage Y% and it is now (Y+6)%, a value which cannot be determined unless you know Y, never mind the reference absolute value it relates to. In this particular case you can say it went from 7% to 13.2%, so if you ignore "%" as the unit the actual change is from 7 to 13.2; a ((13.2-7)/7) ≈ 0.8857 = 88% change. Had the original percentage been say 67%, a 6.2 p.p. change would have increased the percentage to 73.2%; a much smaller ((73.2-67)/67) ≈ 0.0925 = 9% change. Had the change been "six percent of seven percent", the new value would be 7+7*(6/100) = 7.42 (percent).
electric_mayhem 3y ago
> Maybe there’s something neurologically wrong from the beginning that manifests as ADHD and later turns into dementia? I can’t speak to the dementia portion, but it would not surprise me. As for the adhd being the result of something ‘neurologically wrong’… I feel like we should replace ‘wrong’ with something less charged, maybe ‘sub-optimal’ or ‘problematic’, but you intuited your way into something I’ve spent years in therapy and reading books to finally grok. Two specific books that come to mind: The Myth of Normal and What Happened to you
- iinnPP 3y ago
  It is simply another state of being.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  I think there are configurations that are objectively wrong. I think we’ve overreacted to be inclusive and this creates blind spots in our current approach. We can define wrong as counterproductive, while seeking to accommodate those configurations and seek to reduce their affects or mitigate them entirely
- nextaccountic 3y ago
  adhd is largely maladaptive in the modern world but the question is whether it was maladaptive in a hunter-gatherer society personally I feel that the symptoms of adhd are less relevant and doesn't impair my daily functions as much if I focus my entire waking time on outdoor activities like biking and swimming, and while I never hunted with primitive tools it might share some similarities I think this is something that could be verified in practice too, since we still have hunter-gatherers societies
- rokkitmensch 3y ago
  my girl likes "neuro-spicy".
chaorace 3y ago
ADHD is statistically associated with lots of adverse mental health outcomes including... * Doubled rate of premature death (largely attributed to accidental injury) * 47% anxiety disorder comorbidity * 38% severe mood disorder comorbidity (including depression) * 15% substance abuse disorder comorbidity Between the heightened risk of concussions, anxiety, depression, and substance abuse, it's not at all surprising that dementia shows up twice as often in the statistics. With that being said, it doesn't tell us much at all about whether there's a shared pathology.

by wincy 3y ago

alfon 3y ago

I have a brain disease driven by an infection that gets better with long term antibiotics. One of my main symptoms was MCI. Interesting that after long term treatment not only the MCI improved or subsided but also my very long standing ADHD (present for as long as I can remember) got dramatically better, makes you wonder.

SamoyedFurFluff 3y ago
“MCI”? (Not familiar)
- zoklet-enjoyer 3y ago
  Mild cognitive impairment. I googled mci adhd
fallingknife 3y ago
How did you find out about the long standing infection?
yieldcrv 3y ago
[INFO]
crzyman 3y ago
That actually makes a lot of sense to me. ADHD can be phrased as a regulation disorder. Emotions, executive function/ attention. If anything internal (literally any kind of pain) presents itself for my attention, it wins. No contest. I have nasty seasonal allergies (at least one per season). Whenever it flares up, the is a marked increase in my needs and decrease in my productivity. I'm hoping to start immunotherapy for them soon. I get my ADHD and my allergies from my dad and immunotherapy has done him wonders.
- skinner927 3y ago
  Meditative techniques can assist with the regulation of emotions/attention. I speak from experience. It takes practice when you’re feeling well to be able to channel it when you’re not feeling well. It’s not as hippy-dippy as you might think (unless you want it to be). No yoga mat required.
armatav 3y ago
How did you discover the infection
ce4 3y ago
Would you mind to share what pathogen you're dealing with? In case it's tick borne, I can second your observations

jonathanleane 3y ago

It's not a 6% higher risk, it's nearly double the risk - i.e. 7% vs 13.2%. "Dementia occurred among 96 of 730 participants (13.2%) with adult ADHD and 7630 of 108 488 participants (7.0%) without adult ADHD."

Turskarama 3y ago
For those who might not know, this is the difference between "percentage" and "percentage points". It is not 6% higher, it is 6 percentage points higher. This really matters for things with a very low probability.
- wutwutwat 3y ago
  > It is not 6% higher, it is 6 percentage points higher. And the difference between the two is?
  - freshpots 3y ago
    https://www.stat.fi/meta/kas/prosentti_vs__p_en.html https://www.stat.fi/meta/kas/prosentti_vs__p_en.html "Per cent means one hundredth of something. Percentage point is used when comparing percentages to one another. For example, when inflation drops from three to two per cent, inflation decreases by one percentage point and 33.3 per cent."
    - ksaj 3y ago
      This is a nice simple explanation of it. It's also why stock holders use "points" instead of "dollars." A stock share going up $1.50 is amazing if it was a penny stock, and absolutely not worth mentioning if it was say, Tesla. But the points have the same meaning for either stock - one is just a lot higher of a point than the other, even though the dollar change was the same.
  - Zecc 3y ago
    A percentage always reflects a ratio between a quantity and another reference quantity. When you say a value is 6 percent higher, you are saying it went from X to (X + X*(6/100)) = (X*106/100) = 106% of the value you had before (whatever it was). When you say it is 6 percentage points higher it means you had a percentage Y% and it is now (Y+6)%, a value which cannot be determined unless you know Y, never mind the reference absolute value it relates to. In this particular case you can say it went from 7% to 13.2%, so if you ignore "%" as the unit the actual change is from 7 to 13.2; a ((13.2-7)/7) ≈ 0.8857 = 88% change. Had the original percentage been say 67%, a 6.2 p.p. change would have increased the percentage to 73.2%; a much smaller ((73.2-67)/67) ≈ 0.0925 = 9% change. Had the change been "six percent of seven percent", the new value would be 7+7*(6/100) = 7.42 (percent).

electric_mayhem 3y ago

> Maybe there’s something neurologically wrong from the beginning that manifests as ADHD and later turns into dementia? I can’t speak to the dementia portion, but it would not surprise me. As for the adhd being the result of something ‘neurologically wrong’… I feel like we should replace ‘wrong’ with something less charged, maybe ‘sub-optimal’ or ‘problematic’, but you intuited your way into something I’ve spent years in therapy and reading books to finally grok. Two specific books that come to mind: The Myth of Normal and What Happened to you

iinnPP 3y ago
It is simply another state of being.
yieldcrv 3y ago
I think there are configurations that are objectively wrong. I think we’ve overreacted to be inclusive and this creates blind spots in our current approach. We can define wrong as counterproductive, while seeking to accommodate those configurations and seek to reduce their affects or mitigate them entirely
nextaccountic 3y ago
adhd is largely maladaptive in the modern world but the question is whether it was maladaptive in a hunter-gatherer society personally I feel that the symptoms of adhd are less relevant and doesn't impair my daily functions as much if I focus my entire waking time on outdoor activities like biking and swimming, and while I never hunted with primitive tools it might share some similarities I think this is something that could be verified in practice too, since we still have hunter-gatherers societies
rokkitmensch 3y ago
my girl likes "neuro-spicy".

chaorace 3y ago

ADHD is statistically associated with lots of adverse mental health outcomes including... * Doubled rate of premature death (largely attributed to accidental injury) * 47% anxiety disorder comorbidity * 38% severe mood disorder comorbidity (including depression) * 15% substance abuse disorder comorbidity Between the heightened risk of concussions, anxiety, depression, and substance abuse, it's not at all surprising that dementia shows up twice as often in the statistics. With that being said, it doesn't tell us much at all about whether there's a shared pathology.