3 ms·

was there really a 6502 version? I ran Wordstar on my CP/M Z80 card on the Apple 2

falsedang 3y ago
[flagged]
fsckboy 3y ago
how did the Z80 cards work interfacing with the Apple hardware? I presume CP/M software loaded onto the Z80 was accessing (what I will call) "S-100 memory and displays"? Did you run a piece of software on the 6502 that translated/transported that virtual hardware state on the Z80 card to the real Apple hardware? Or did the Z80 card translate the available Apple hardware memory and display to be directly accessible to the Z80, and put the 6502 to sleep? The mind boggles. Hardware was much simpler back then, seems like anything could be possible, but memory was expensive so you wouldn't want to duplicate it or waste it. I once heard from a reliable source that Paul Allen's Z80 card was Microsoft's big cash cow funding Microsoft's growth in between the BASIC era and the MS-DOS era, it was a really important product.
- bombcar 3y ago
  https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/2055/how-did-the-apple-ii-forward-binary-instructions-to-the-z80-software-card-with-c https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/2055/how-... has some background on it, and it was a huge success for Microsoft.
  - js2 3y ago
    > Can you imagine in the 1990s plugging a Motorola 68020 card into a Intel 286 PC and running Mac programs? There was an Apple II peripheral card for the IBM PC: https://www.diskman.com/presents/trackstar/ https://www.diskman.com/presents/trackstar/ > (Or vice versa - plugging an Intel card into a Mac and running Windows programs on the hardware.) The PC Transporter was a peripheral card for the II GS. There was also an Apple IIe card for the Mac LC I think.
    - krallja 3y ago
      Apple made compatibility cards, and even made The Power Macintosh 6100/66 DOS Compatible - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UclHrIIaYA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UclHrIIaYA
    - eichin 3y ago
      Or the MacIvory (lisp machine stripped down to fit as a card in a mac)
wanderingstan 3y ago
I’m also suspicious of this. IIRC, our primary reason to get a Z80 card was to run WordStar. We had a very active piracy club in the early 80s with easily a thousand floppies and I don’t recall ever hearing about a native 6502 WordStar. (We met every Sunday at the local school cafeteria.)
- js2 3y ago
  Ditto. I'm fairly confident it's a mistake in the article.
  - BirAdam 3y ago
    Author here. That was added after a comment by de Jong. Edit: specifically he stated “the genius Rob Barnaby had written WordStar entirely in Z80 assembler which was then cross assembled into 6502 Assembler for the early Apple computers.”
    - js2 3y ago
      I was only maybe 9 when my dad brought home an Apple II, but I grew up on that machine. It was a completely maxed out Apple II. Upgraded to a II+, Z/80 softcard, 16k language card, 80 column card, enhanced keyboard, modem, dual disk II drives, etc. I had a ton of software, both purchased and acquired through other means. If there was a native WordStar for the Apple II, I find it hard to believe it would have escaped my notice. I certainly would have remembered it. None of the other commenters here recollect it either. No trace of it can be found on any Apple II archives on the net. WordStar was semi-famous for being the reason people bought the Z/80 softcard (that and dBase). I know it's the only reason my Apple II had a Z/80 card in it. If there were a native Apple II WordStar, they'd have been little reason to buy that card for many people. No mention of it here which also cites de Jong and Barnaby: https://www.wordstar.org/index.php/wordstar-history https://www.wordstar.org/index.php/wordstar-history Here's a 1983 article about running WordStar on an Apple II: "WordStar requires a Z80 SoftCard" https://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v9n3/81_Word_processing_on_the_Ap.php https://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v9n3/81_Word_process... So maybe it existed but if so, I don't believe it ever saw the light of day. I'd love to be proven wrong.

[flagged]

how did the Z80 cards work interfacing with the Apple hardware? I presume CP/M software loaded onto the Z80 was accessing (what I will call) "S-100 memory and displays"? Did you run a piece of software on the 6502 that translated/transported that virtual hardware state on the Z80 card to the real Apple hardware? Or did the Z80 card translate the available Apple hardware memory and display to be directly accessible to the Z80, and put the 6502 to sleep? The mind boggles. Hardware was much simpler back then, seems like anything could be possible, but memory was expensive so you wouldn't want to duplicate it or waste it. I once heard from a reliable source that Paul Allen's Z80 card was Microsoft's big cash cow funding Microsoft's growth in between the BASIC era and the MS-DOS era, it was a really important product.

bombcar 3y ago
https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/2055/how-did-the-apple-ii-forward-binary-instructions-to-the-z80-software-card-with-c https://retrocomputing.stackexchange.com/questions/2055/how-... has some background on it, and it was a huge success for Microsoft.
- js2 3y ago
  > Can you imagine in the 1990s plugging a Motorola 68020 card into a Intel 286 PC and running Mac programs? There was an Apple II peripheral card for the IBM PC: https://www.diskman.com/presents/trackstar/ https://www.diskman.com/presents/trackstar/ > (Or vice versa - plugging an Intel card into a Mac and running Windows programs on the hardware.) The PC Transporter was a peripheral card for the II GS. There was also an Apple IIe card for the Mac LC I think.
  - krallja 3y ago
    Apple made compatibility cards, and even made The Power Macintosh 6100/66 DOS Compatible - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UclHrIIaYA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UclHrIIaYA
  - eichin 3y ago
    Or the MacIvory (lisp machine stripped down to fit as a card in a mac)

wanderingstan 3y ago

I’m also suspicious of this. IIRC, our primary reason to get a Z80 card was to run WordStar. We had a very active piracy club in the early 80s with easily a thousand floppies and I don’t recall ever hearing about a native 6502 WordStar. (We met every Sunday at the local school cafeteria.)

js2 3y ago
Ditto. I'm fairly confident it's a mistake in the article.
- BirAdam 3y ago
  Author here. That was added after a comment by de Jong. Edit: specifically he stated “the genius Rob Barnaby had written WordStar entirely in Z80 assembler which was then cross assembled into 6502 Assembler for the early Apple computers.”
  - js2 3y ago
    I was only maybe 9 when my dad brought home an Apple II, but I grew up on that machine. It was a completely maxed out Apple II. Upgraded to a II+, Z/80 softcard, 16k language card, 80 column card, enhanced keyboard, modem, dual disk II drives, etc. I had a ton of software, both purchased and acquired through other means. If there was a native WordStar for the Apple II, I find it hard to believe it would have escaped my notice. I certainly would have remembered it. None of the other commenters here recollect it either. No trace of it can be found on any Apple II archives on the net. WordStar was semi-famous for being the reason people bought the Z/80 softcard (that and dBase). I know it's the only reason my Apple II had a Z/80 card in it. If there were a native Apple II WordStar, they'd have been little reason to buy that card for many people. No mention of it here which also cites de Jong and Barnaby: https://www.wordstar.org/index.php/wordstar-history https://www.wordstar.org/index.php/wordstar-history Here's a 1983 article about running WordStar on an Apple II: "WordStar requires a Z80 SoftCard" https://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v9n3/81_Word_processing_on_the_Ap.php https://www.atarimagazines.com/creative/v9n3/81_Word_process... So maybe it existed but if so, I don't believe it ever saw the light of day. I'd love to be proven wrong.