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There's a difference between trying to do a thing and doing a thing knowing that it will have a side effect in certain cases. For example, is the President try

There's a difference between trying to do a thing and doing a thing knowing that it will have a side effect in certain cases. For example, is the President trying to warm the globe when he flies around in Air Force One, with his entourage and protection detail? Or is he trying to do something else, but is aware that in doing so he is generating greenhouse gasses? There's a difference, at least in my book. And if you've lost me (HN-reading father of soon-to-be-tweenage daughter), then good luck convincing the average Joe.

micromacrofoot 3y ago
They did the thing, observed and documented the side effect, and chose to continue doing the thing. They did this in Myanmar and they are still doing this to teenagers.
- r3trohack3r 3y ago
  > I've got somewhere around 10 years, conservatively, until Instagram/TikTok/YouTube/Facebook/etc. try to get my daughter to kill herself. I've got around 10 years until she is a statistic, hopefully the statistic that survives. You make a fair point gnicholas. If you can reword this sentence in a way that accurately reflects what you think is happening while simultaneously not losing the conciseness of the waters I'm navigating as a parent when I say "in 10 years, Instagram is going to try to get my daughter to kill herself" - I'll gladly edit it and start using that instead. I haven't found a better way to express myself though. Sure apps aren't sentient. They don't have free will. They can't "try to do anything." But language is messy. You're right about losing people in the argument too, that's not a great outcome. Micromacrofoot is spot on as well, you have a generation of parents who understand well that social media is a root rot in our society and evidence showing the people building them _knew_ about the impact it was having on kids. "Bad for mental health" doesn't cut it. I reject any language that dulls the blade of kids committing suicide.
  - gnicholas 3y ago
    If you share the evidence you're referring to, perhaps I could come up with alternative language to reflect that. It sounds like you prefer to go for punchier language at the expense of technical accuracy. That's a valid choice to make in certain circumstances (advertisers and political campaigns do it all the time), but you just have to be aware that you will lose some people when you make statements like that.
    - Timshel 3y ago
      Probably something along the lines of https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/29/22701445/facebook-instagram-mental-health-research-pdfs-documents https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/29/22701445/facebook-instagr...

micromacrofoot 3y ago

They did the thing, observed and documented the side effect, and chose to continue doing the thing. They did this in Myanmar and they are still doing this to teenagers.

r3trohack3r 3y ago
> I've got somewhere around 10 years, conservatively, until Instagram/TikTok/YouTube/Facebook/etc. try to get my daughter to kill herself. I've got around 10 years until she is a statistic, hopefully the statistic that survives. You make a fair point gnicholas. If you can reword this sentence in a way that accurately reflects what you think is happening while simultaneously not losing the conciseness of the waters I'm navigating as a parent when I say "in 10 years, Instagram is going to try to get my daughter to kill herself" - I'll gladly edit it and start using that instead. I haven't found a better way to express myself though. Sure apps aren't sentient. They don't have free will. They can't "try to do anything." But language is messy. You're right about losing people in the argument too, that's not a great outcome. Micromacrofoot is spot on as well, you have a generation of parents who understand well that social media is a root rot in our society and evidence showing the people building them _knew_ about the impact it was having on kids. "Bad for mental health" doesn't cut it. I reject any language that dulls the blade of kids committing suicide.
- gnicholas 3y ago
  If you share the evidence you're referring to, perhaps I could come up with alternative language to reflect that. It sounds like you prefer to go for punchier language at the expense of technical accuracy. That's a valid choice to make in certain circumstances (advertisers and political campaigns do it all the time), but you just have to be aware that you will lose some people when you make statements like that.
  - Timshel 3y ago
    Probably something along the lines of https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/29/22701445/facebook-instagram-mental-health-research-pdfs-documents https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/29/22701445/facebook-instagr...