5 ms·

This is only tangentially-related, but I know I'm asking the right audience: I switched, blissfully, away from Quicken/Quickbook/Xero/all that heavy crap to ve

by nlh 3y ago

This is only tangentially-related, but I know I'm asking the right audience: I switched, blissfully, away from Quicken/Quickbook/Xero/all that heavy crap to very simple and elegant textfile-based accounting (ledger/hledger) and it's been the best and most flexible accounting experience I've ever had. I finally feel completely in control of my companies' books. Is there an equivalently-blissful tax-filing software/service? I don't want to go back to TurboTax, and with several single-member LLCs I'm probably beyond the scope of the IRS' free service. Anyone have any suggestions?

wolverine876 3y ago
> I switched, blissfully, away from Quicken/Quickbook/Xero/all that heavy crap to very simple and elegant textfile-based accounting (ledger/hledger) and it's been the best and most flexible accounting experience I've ever had. I finally feel completely in control of my companies' books. I love the idea, but not being an accounting expert (maybe you are), I'd be afraid that some immaturity or lack of expertise in the software would cause a big problem in a critical way. What makes you confident in it? Also, how do you share data with accountants, etc.?
crazygringo 3y ago
If you're looking for the same level of manual control because you don't want the "wizard" interface, you should use "Free File Fillable Forms" [1], which is the product of a public-private partnership with the IRS. It's literally just filling out the paper forms except in a web interface and it does most of the math for you. And then you can file electronically for free regardless of your income level, and it produces a final PDF with all forms filled out for your files. It can be tricky to do your taxes the first time around depending on their complexity, but the good thing is that once you figure it out, you just use the previous year's PDF's as a reference for the current year's. The lines move around a little bit year-to-year but it's usually the same idea. And it becomes pretty obvious what has changed (that requires research), and you can figure out if anything has changed in your own financial situation that warrants filling out a new line or new set of forms. (I don't believe there's anything specifically textfile-based. But this is definitely the electronic version of doing your taxes "manually" with full control.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_File#Free_File_Fillable_Forms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_File#Free_File_Fillable_F...
- creer 3y ago
  https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-forms https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form... That's interesting. Apparently submits electronically sometimes - but if you need attached statements, for example for f1116, you have to print the product and mail it. Otherwise supports surprisingly MANY forms - many of them with some limitations which are enumerated for you. Some schedules are not included, for example this year f1116 requires 1116 Schedule B for carryovers and that's not provided here. So again if you need f1116 then you'll be printing and mailing that. Really... Many forms are included.
dpifke 3y ago
With Beancount, I use metadata tags in my chart of accounts for the tax form and line number, e.g. 2017-01-01 open Expenses:GA:Insurance USD tax_form: "1040 Schedule C" tax_line: "15" tax_description: "Insurance (other than health)" I can then report my transactions based on the tax_form and tax_line attribute, which gets me much of the way there. I still have to do the math on derived lines on the forms, but this at least makes sure the inputs are gathered correctly. Being able to write comments is also super-useful. A real life example: ; We can make a "Section 1.263(a)-1(f) de minimis safe harbor election" to ; treat repairs and improvements to tangible property as an expense, which ; would otherwise have to be capitalized. A statement that we are making the ; election must be attached to our tax return and should include name, address, ; and Taxpayer Identification Number. Under the election, we must apply the de ; minimis safe harbor to all expenditures meeting the criteria for the election ; in the taxable year. The limit is $2,500 per invoice. ; ; https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tangible-property-final-regulations 2016-01-01 open Expenses:RD:Hosting:Repairs:DeMinimis USD tax_form: "1040 Schedule C (R&E)" tax_line: "21" tax_description: "Repairs and maintenance"
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- mindslight 3y ago
  Interesting idea, but wouldn't you be better off creating abstract categories and then assigning/verifying where they go at tax time? Line numbers can change from year to year.
  - dpifke 3y ago
    Those are abstract categories (accounts). Transactions get assigned to accounts, then (at tax time) accounts get assigned to forms and line numbers. Remapping a transaction to a different tax line item (e.g. if tax law changes, as it did this year with § 174) is just a matter of updating the account metadata. This is much more convenient than having to go back through the books and reassign transactions to different accounts. It's plain text in Git, so I have the usual tools available. For example, `git diff` can tell me what changed between tax years, and I can check out a copy of my books as they existed at the time a past year's return was filed.

by nlh 3y ago

wolverine876 3y ago

> I switched, blissfully, away from Quicken/Quickbook/Xero/all that heavy crap to very simple and elegant textfile-based accounting (ledger/hledger) and it's been the best and most flexible accounting experience I've ever had. I finally feel completely in control of my companies' books. I love the idea, but not being an accounting expert (maybe you are), I'd be afraid that some immaturity or lack of expertise in the software would cause a big problem in a critical way. What makes you confident in it? Also, how do you share data with accountants, etc.?

crazygringo 3y ago

If you're looking for the same level of manual control because you don't want the "wizard" interface, you should use "Free File Fillable Forms" [1], which is the product of a public-private partnership with the IRS. It's literally just filling out the paper forms except in a web interface and it does most of the math for you. And then you can file electronically for free regardless of your income level, and it produces a final PDF with all forms filled out for your files. It can be tricky to do your taxes the first time around depending on their complexity, but the good thing is that once you figure it out, you just use the previous year's PDF's as a reference for the current year's. The lines move around a little bit year-to-year but it's usually the same idea. And it becomes pretty obvious what has changed (that requires research), and you can figure out if anything has changed in your own financial situation that warrants filling out a new line or new set of forms. (I don't believe there's anything specifically textfile-based. But this is definitely the electronic version of doing your taxes "manually" with full control.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_File#Free_File_Fillable_Forms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_File#Free_File_Fillable_F...

creer 3y ago
https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-forms https://www.irs.gov/e-file-providers/free-file-fillable-form... That's interesting. Apparently submits electronically sometimes - but if you need attached statements, for example for f1116, you have to print the product and mail it. Otherwise supports surprisingly MANY forms - many of them with some limitations which are enumerated for you. Some schedules are not included, for example this year f1116 requires 1116 Schedule B for carryovers and that's not provided here. So again if you need f1116 then you'll be printing and mailing that. Really... Many forms are included.

dpifke 3y ago

With Beancount, I use metadata tags in my chart of accounts for the tax form and line number, e.g. 2017-01-01 open Expenses:GA:Insurance USD tax_form: "1040 Schedule C" tax_line: "15" tax_description: "Insurance (other than health)" I can then report my transactions based on the tax_form and tax_line attribute, which gets me much of the way there. I still have to do the math on derived lines on the forms, but this at least makes sure the inputs are gathered correctly. Being able to write comments is also super-useful. A real life example: ; We can make a "Section 1.263(a)-1(f) de minimis safe harbor election" to ; treat repairs and improvements to tangible property as an expense, which ; would otherwise have to be capitalized. A statement that we are making the ; election must be attached to our tax return and should include name, address, ; and Taxpayer Identification Number. Under the election, we must apply the de ; minimis safe harbor to all expenditures meeting the criteria for the election ; in the taxable year. The limit is $2,500 per invoice. ; ; https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/tangible-property-final-regulations 2016-01-01 open Expenses:RD:Hosting:Repairs:DeMinimis USD tax_form: "1040 Schedule C (R&E)" tax_line: "21" tax_description: "Repairs and maintenance"

deleted 3y ago
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mindslight 3y ago
Interesting idea, but wouldn't you be better off creating abstract categories and then assigning/verifying where they go at tax time? Line numbers can change from year to year.
- dpifke 3y ago
  Those are abstract categories (accounts). Transactions get assigned to accounts, then (at tax time) accounts get assigned to forms and line numbers. Remapping a transaction to a different tax line item (e.g. if tax law changes, as it did this year with § 174) is just a matter of updating the account metadata. This is much more convenient than having to go back through the books and reassign transactions to different accounts. It's plain text in Git, so I have the usual tools available. For example, `git diff` can tell me what changed between tax years, and I can check out a copy of my books as they existed at the time a past year's return was filed.