4 ms·

CAFE standards are a half way measure. What we really need are revenue neutral carbon taxes. Gas is now $7 / gallon, but everyone gets an income tax credit.

CAFE standards are a half way measure. What we really need are revenue neutral carbon taxes. Gas is now $7 / gallon, but everyone gets an income tax credit. Want to 'not pay taxes'? Buy a more fuel efficient vehicle. Turn down the thermostat, etc. I always thought income taxes were silly. Tax the things you want less of like pollution, etc.

someguydave 3y ago
Income taxes are silly but they keep a lid on the entrepreneurial spirits of rich wagies which the wealthy like.
sp332 3y ago
That just makes poorer people vulnerable to the weather and also unable to commute to work.
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
  I mean, you could easily increase the tax credit to be progressive and not be regressive.
  - sp332 3y ago
    I'm not sure how this works. I'm going to carry all my gas money as debt until tax season?
    - wing-_-nuts 3y ago
      Well, you could theoretically offer to give people their tax credit in monthly installments but I'm pretty sure everyone would opt for the lump sum.
vorpalhex 3y ago
Gas is $3 / gallon here. Most of what you are paying IS taxes. The problem with no income tax is the poor spend more of their income, so end up paying more taxes AND the overall tax revenue decreases. You may be able to buy a new $40,000 car. Most of the population can not. I suppose "just freeze a bit" will save a few pennies...
- wiredfool 3y ago
  Gas is 8 a gallon (1.85 eur/l) here, and it’s about 50c/l in road fuel tax. (As compared to the agri diesel prices) The spike since the Ukraine war hasn’t really changed behavior that much, possibly because the baseline vehicle here is far more fuel efficient than the US.
- kube-system 3y ago
  The highest gasoline taxes in the US are a combined state + federal total of $0.76/gallon in Pennsylvania.
  - vorpalhex 3y ago
    Well wrong twice over. Direct "gasoline" tax is $0.77 in California. Further there's an excise tax, a greenhouse gas tax and so on. So $1.18 per gallon directly for gas... But hold on, California also taxes underground storage tanks, the transportation of gasoline, and so on. It doesn't cost $4/gal to transport gas from Texas to California. Your gas station owners aren't making that much profit.
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
  The tax credit could be designed in such a way to be progressive and actually benefit the poor. Honestly, most of the time when I see a 'just think of the poor!' argument against a carbon tax, it's typically from someone living in a mcMansion with a $400 power bill who drives an f250 to get groceries. I realize they'd be perfectly happy with business as usual, but that's not the change we need.
kube-system 3y ago
The venn diagram of the people who can afford new cars and the people who would be hurt the most by $7 gas has relatively little overlap.
- wing-_-nuts 3y ago
  Who says they can't buy a fuel efficient used car?
  - kube-system 3y ago
    They exist, but in limited numbers. The fleet of used cars on the road doesn't represent what used car buyers necessarily want, it just represents what new car buyers wanted in years past. To get a fuel efficient used car today, you have to have convinced a higher income buyer to have bought a new one a few years ago. This is why fuel economy standards are a good idea -- the entire market doesn't decide what vehicles get built -- only the top ~1/3 of market purchasers decide what manufacturers build.

someguydave 3y ago

Income taxes are silly but they keep a lid on the entrepreneurial spirits of rich wagies which the wealthy like.

sp332 3y ago

That just makes poorer people vulnerable to the weather and also unable to commute to work.

wing-_-nuts 3y ago
I mean, you could easily increase the tax credit to be progressive and not be regressive.
- sp332 3y ago
  I'm not sure how this works. I'm going to carry all my gas money as debt until tax season?
  - wing-_-nuts 3y ago
    Well, you could theoretically offer to give people their tax credit in monthly installments but I'm pretty sure everyone would opt for the lump sum.

vorpalhex 3y ago

Gas is $3 / gallon here. Most of what you are paying IS taxes. The problem with no income tax is the poor spend more of their income, so end up paying more taxes AND the overall tax revenue decreases. You may be able to buy a new $40,000 car. Most of the population can not. I suppose "just freeze a bit" will save a few pennies...

wiredfool 3y ago
Gas is 8 a gallon (1.85 eur/l) here, and it’s about 50c/l in road fuel tax. (As compared to the agri diesel prices) The spike since the Ukraine war hasn’t really changed behavior that much, possibly because the baseline vehicle here is far more fuel efficient than the US.
kube-system 3y ago
The highest gasoline taxes in the US are a combined state + federal total of $0.76/gallon in Pennsylvania.
- vorpalhex 3y ago
  Well wrong twice over. Direct "gasoline" tax is $0.77 in California. Further there's an excise tax, a greenhouse gas tax and so on. So $1.18 per gallon directly for gas... But hold on, California also taxes underground storage tanks, the transportation of gasoline, and so on. It doesn't cost $4/gal to transport gas from Texas to California. Your gas station owners aren't making that much profit.
wing-_-nuts 3y ago
The tax credit could be designed in such a way to be progressive and actually benefit the poor. Honestly, most of the time when I see a 'just think of the poor!' argument against a carbon tax, it's typically from someone living in a mcMansion with a $400 power bill who drives an f250 to get groceries. I realize they'd be perfectly happy with business as usual, but that's not the change we need.

kube-system 3y ago

The venn diagram of the people who can afford new cars and the people who would be hurt the most by $7 gas has relatively little overlap.

wing-_-nuts 3y ago
Who says they can't buy a fuel efficient used car?
- kube-system 3y ago
  They exist, but in limited numbers. The fleet of used cars on the road doesn't represent what used car buyers necessarily want, it just represents what new car buyers wanted in years past. To get a fuel efficient used car today, you have to have convinced a higher income buyer to have bought a new one a few years ago. This is why fuel economy standards are a good idea -- the entire market doesn't decide what vehicles get built -- only the top ~1/3 of market purchasers decide what manufacturers build.