5 ms·

I find it quite disturbing that so many HN posters think sex with a prostitute is consensual.

by bishnu 15y ago

mkramlich 15y ago
If a woman chooses to be a prostitute, and chooses to engage with a "John", then heck yes it's consensual. That's what that word means. And is there plenty of evidence that some women choose to be prostitutes (no gun pointed to their head, they have other employment options, etc.)? Heck yes. Not even controversial. Are some women forced to do it? Yes, of course. So in those cases it is not consensual. If it's not consensual in one case it does not mean it's not consensual in all cases.
- bishnu 15y ago
  So prostitution is consensual, except when it's not. I would call that not consensual.
  - jaredsohn 15y ago
    You have a funny sense of logic then. Isn't it possible to be consensual in some cases and not in others? If I said "In some cases it is legal to download a video and in some cases it is not", would you call that "never legal to download a video"? The fact that I can't legally download a movie currently in the theater shouldn't affect me from legally downloading a video licensed under a creative commons license.
- DanBC 15y ago
  People trafficking is a huge business with profits for organised crime of over $30billion. Significant numbers of women are forced into sex work in countries across the world. (http://www.unglobalcompact.org/docs/issues_doc/labour/Forced_labour/HUMAN_TRAFFICKING_-_THE_FACTS_-_final.pdf http://www.unglobalcompact.org/docs/issues_doc/labour/Forced...) Even if the person is not trafficked there are consent issues around addiction: Can a person addicted to a substance make a free informed choice? Here's some research showing that many people involved in prostitution are also drug users. (While this research isn't great it also references a lot of earlier research) (http://myweb.dal.ca/mgoodyea/Documents/Health%20and%20wellbeing/Prostitution,%20drug%20use,%20and%20coping%20Young%20J%20Drug%20Iss%202000%2030(4)%20789-800.pdf http://myweb.dal.ca/mgoodyea/Documents/Health%20and%20wellbe...) In theory there's nothing wrong with someone buying or selling sex. In practice there are often horrible problems.
  - pepve 15y ago
    I think this game portrays a theoretical world.
  - defrost 15y ago
    Look, we get it, the US has an education problem, still doesn't use metric, has a high rate of incarceration that effectively enslaves cheap labour, and still can't have legal prostitution without human trafficking or drugs. Meanwhile, in saner socialist countries prisons are for reform, prostitution is government sponsored for health reasons and subject to drug testing and checks for pimps or links to human trafficking. Just because some countries can't do some things right doesn't mean the things they screw up are wrong.
    - DanBC 15y ago
      I wasn't making an anti US post. I have no idea why you think I was. I'm not sure I understand your post.
      - defrost 15y ago
        This is one of those issues where things can get blurred, I have to confess I'm a little unclear as to your exact position as well so I'll try and be clear. Firstly I'm pro informed consensual activity, whether or not that activity is distasteful to myself or society at large. As far as drug use and prostitution are concerned I'll go with history and note that humans will always be doing both. Now, in response to someone raising prostitution, if consensual, being okay you responded with a link to a UN report on human trafficking and a US study on drugs and prostitution being highly correlated. These are fair points to raise, my position would be that if various countries decriminalised drug use and prostitution then they could be regulated as many other activities and industries are which would lead to a strong reduction in health issues and unsavoury slave like conditions. The tone of my post was to strike a response, if anything I was the one expressing an anti US (government policy) sentiment. I noted you cited a US report linking drugs and prostitution (although I note it mentioned drug use in London as well) and I reacted rather strongly to that. If you meant to imply that prostitution -> drug use + pimping then I disagree as I feel that correlation does not equal causation and personally feel that federal level policy that declares a war on drugs and regards the business of sex as immoral is more likely to be the root cause of problems.
Lazare 15y ago
I'm taking my karma in my hands, but... I find it disturbing how close minded and parochial you are. I live in a liberal Western democracy. Several years ago our female Prime Minister pushed through laws completely legalizing prostitution. It's just a job; maybe not a very nice job, but a fairly high paying one. They pay tax, are protected by police, and have to follow health and safety laws. And given our generous welfare net, nobody is ever even forced into prostitution to eat. Do you think getting a haircut at a barbershop is consensual? If so, then what's the difference? Your idea of prostitution is filtered through the lens of your own experiences. In America and other repressed countries, it's probably a good idea to assume that prostitution is not consensual; there is indeed coercion and violence, which is absolutely inexcusable and disgusting. But America is not the world, and you need to drop the rediculous sweeping universal statements.

I find it quite disturbing that so many HN posters think sex with a prostitute is consensual.

by bishnu 15y ago

I find it quite disturbing that so many HN posters think sex with a prostitute is consensual.

If a woman chooses to be a prostitute, and chooses to engage with a "John", then heck yes it's consensual. That's what that word means. And is there plenty of evidence that some women choose to be prostitutes (no gun pointed to their head, they have other employment options, etc.)? Heck yes. Not even controversial. Are some women forced to do it? Yes, of course. So in those cases it is not consensual. If it's not consensual in one case it does not mean it's not consensual in all cases.

bishnu 15y ago
So prostitution is consensual, except when it's not. I would call that not consensual.
- jaredsohn 15y ago
  You have a funny sense of logic then. Isn't it possible to be consensual in some cases and not in others? If I said "In some cases it is legal to download a video and in some cases it is not", would you call that "never legal to download a video"? The fact that I can't legally download a movie currently in the theater shouldn't affect me from legally downloading a video licensed under a creative commons license.
DanBC 15y ago
People trafficking is a huge business with profits for organised crime of over $30billion. Significant numbers of women are forced into sex work in countries across the world. (http://www.unglobalcompact.org/docs/issues_doc/labour/Forced_labour/HUMAN_TRAFFICKING_-_THE_FACTS_-_final.pdf http://www.unglobalcompact.org/docs/issues_doc/labour/Forced...) Even if the person is not trafficked there are consent issues around addiction: Can a person addicted to a substance make a free informed choice? Here's some research showing that many people involved in prostitution are also drug users. (While this research isn't great it also references a lot of earlier research) (http://myweb.dal.ca/mgoodyea/Documents/Health%20and%20wellbeing/Prostitution,%20drug%20use,%20and%20coping%20Young%20J%20Drug%20Iss%202000%2030(4)%20789-800.pdf http://myweb.dal.ca/mgoodyea/Documents/Health%20and%20wellbe...) In theory there's nothing wrong with someone buying or selling sex. In practice there are often horrible problems.
- pepve 15y ago
  I think this game portrays a theoretical world.
- defrost 15y ago
  Look, we get it, the US has an education problem, still doesn't use metric, has a high rate of incarceration that effectively enslaves cheap labour, and still can't have legal prostitution without human trafficking or drugs. Meanwhile, in saner socialist countries prisons are for reform, prostitution is government sponsored for health reasons and subject to drug testing and checks for pimps or links to human trafficking. Just because some countries can't do some things right doesn't mean the things they screw up are wrong.
  - DanBC 15y ago
    I wasn't making an anti US post. I have no idea why you think I was. I'm not sure I understand your post.
    - defrost 15y ago
      This is one of those issues where things can get blurred, I have to confess I'm a little unclear as to your exact position as well so I'll try and be clear. Firstly I'm pro informed consensual activity, whether or not that activity is distasteful to myself or society at large. As far as drug use and prostitution are concerned I'll go with history and note that humans will always be doing both. Now, in response to someone raising prostitution, if consensual, being okay you responded with a link to a UN report on human trafficking and a US study on drugs and prostitution being highly correlated. These are fair points to raise, my position would be that if various countries decriminalised drug use and prostitution then they could be regulated as many other activities and industries are which would lead to a strong reduction in health issues and unsavoury slave like conditions. The tone of my post was to strike a response, if anything I was the one expressing an anti US (government policy) sentiment. I noted you cited a US report linking drugs and prostitution (although I note it mentioned drug use in London as well) and I reacted rather strongly to that. If you meant to imply that prostitution -> drug use + pimping then I disagree as I feel that correlation does not equal causation and personally feel that federal level policy that declares a war on drugs and regards the business of sex as immoral is more likely to be the root cause of problems.

Lazare 15y ago

I'm taking my karma in my hands, but... I find it disturbing how close minded and parochial you are. I live in a liberal Western democracy. Several years ago our female Prime Minister pushed through laws completely legalizing prostitution. It's just a job; maybe not a very nice job, but a fairly high paying one. They pay tax, are protected by police, and have to follow health and safety laws. And given our generous welfare net, nobody is ever even forced into prostitution to eat. Do you think getting a haircut at a barbershop is consensual? If so, then what's the difference? Your idea of prostitution is filtered through the lens of your own experiences. In America and other repressed countries, it's probably a good idea to assume that prostitution is not consensual; there is indeed coercion and violence, which is absolutely inexcusable and disgusting. But America is not the world, and you need to drop the rediculous sweeping universal statements.