5 ms·

Perhaps I am one of a small group but it still irritates me how politicized the origins of COVID were. It should never have been that way and it should never ha

by Ajay-p 3y ago

Perhaps I am one of a small group but it still irritates me how politicized the origins of COVID were. It should never have been that way and it should never happen again. Lab leak, deliberate act, accident, or a mutation in the wild, the origins should have been rigorously challenged and pursued no matter the consequence.

mdgrech23 3y ago
[flagged]
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
This entire topic has gotten harebrained, so I’ll add to the fire: the part of our population that had a problem getting vaccinated would have responded much better to a perceived threat from a tangible adversary.
- cempaka 3y ago
  Are you under the impression that a large number of people who refused the COVID shots didn't also already believe that the virus came from a lab?
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Are you under the impression that a large number of people who refused the COVID shots didn't also already believe that the virus came from a lab? At its core, no. But there were a lot of people caught in the crossfire of information who simply got scared. For many of them, seeing SARS-CoV-2 as man-made could have counteracted that anxiety.
- chrisco255 3y ago
  The purpose of a vaccine is to inoculate against a disease. The vaccine failed miserably at that. If the disease were actually deadly enough, more people would have chanced an experimental mRNA injection into their bloodstream vs taking the disease on via natural immunity. You didn't have to propagandize and gaslight people to take the smallpox vaccine: it was self evident how deadly the disease was. And yet, the world was never shut down for small pox. It was clear very early on that for the vast majority of the population (over 99%) there was no tangible threat from Covid. And yet the theater of Covid was carried on. I still remember the footage out of Wuhan in early 2020 that scared the bejeezus out of me, of people just falling over in the middle of the streets and people with hazmat suits showing up and carting people off. Only in retrospect can we see that was all a production. People don't literally fall over in the middle of the street from Covid infection, fine one minute and near dead the next. So from that background, why would you trust anything the government tells you, when the government showed no good faith effort to seek truth or be reasonable? Many who pitched the lab leak theory were dismissed, shut down, censored, and ridiculed. From the same conformists that sought to manipulate healthy young people into taking an unnecessary vaccine and to give up a portion of their youth to terror and tyranny.
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > purpose of a vaccine is to inoculate against a disease. The vaccine failed miserably at that. Inoculation means to prevent disease. The mRNA vaccines were extraordinary at preventing Covid, the disease. Sterilisation is a nice to have, but far from mandatory--modern polio vaccines aren't sterilising. > didn't have to propagandize and gaslight people to take the smallpox vaccine: it was self evident how deadly the disease was A meaningful fraction of Americans, Brits and Canadians are generally against inoculation [1]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9009899/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9009899/
    - somenameforme 3y ago
      "> A meaningful fraction of Americans, Brits and Canadians are generally against inoculation [1]." He said was. The disease was deadly, now it's threat to you is extremely low. If you weren't aware, we stopped vaccinating for small pox in 1972, as soon as it was no longer a threat in the United States. It would not be globally eradicated until 1979. And I think that's largely the problem many people have. Forcing vaccinations for diseases that pose little risk is illogical. In looking up information on this topic I somehow stumbled onto this [1] page. For instance now the seasonal flu vaccine is required for immigrants, and even in some schools!? The flu poses an extremely negligible risk to both of these groups. It's hard not to see the motivation behind this as being simply directing ever more $$$ to big-pharma interests, which the people making these rules are often directly invested in. It doesn't feel like rational public health guidance, and that destroys trust. [1] - https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/laws-regs/vaccination-immigration/revised-vaccination-immigration-faq.html https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/laws-regs/vaccina...
  - falamboram2 3y ago
    [dead]
  - RandomLensman 3y ago
    Some types of vaccinations against smallpox where available for centuries and there was also opposition to those. When there were local smallpox outbreaks in the West in the 20th century there were drastic containment measures.
- Ajay-p 3y ago
  Could you please expand on that? To be sure I understand correctly: Those who resisted taking the vaccine would have been more inclined to do so had a specific country been identified as the source, or that it may have been a leak from a laboratory? To state different: Was the unknown/disputed origins the catalyst for some not getting vaccinated?
tastyfreeze 3y ago
People are selfish. COVID may have started in China as a lab leak but the US likely funded it. Plenty of selfish reasons for people in government to squash the idea that COVID was a lab leak. If the lab leak turns out to be true I could see people demanding that the gallows be dusted off.
- mc32 3y ago
  We fund this research in a few countries around the world where their procedures are more lax so leaks are even more likely than they are in US based labs Plum island, fort Dietrick, etc). Still if US officials are responsible for lax oversight or funding poorly run labs they should be held responsible.
- kylebenzle 3y ago
  Even if it was accidentally leaked? That's extreme. I work with transgenic, not viruses, but mistakes happen and the death penalty for researchers is crazy.
  - tastyfreeze 3y ago
    Yes, for the coverup. If it was a lab leak, we had the director of NIAID covering it up on national news. That is the kind of thing the people demand blood for.
  - akira2501 3y ago
    There was a specific legal ban on this type of research, yet, the researchers continued anyways. It may have been "an accident," but that really doesn't afford them any excuse.
    - kylebenzle 3y ago
      We do this research everyday. Mutating a virus is not illegal, why do you even say that.
  - infamouscow 3y ago
    The death penalty is a merciful punishment for going out of one's way to circumvent research bans that would have completely prevented a leak in the first place.
kylebenzle 3y ago
If China did leak COVID, as is looking more and more likely, by accident or on purpose, that is a POLITICAL issues. First if it was a leak, we'd have to cut off all funding and shared resources just to be safe, which we have already done. Next there would have to be some investigation that China would naturally be adversarial to. If it was natural they would want to collaborate (they are refusing to collaborate for the most part).
shadowgovt 3y ago
Spanish flu is called Spanish flu because Spain was one of the few countries not directly embroiled in World War I at the time, so when the flu was identified in their cities, their media reported on it. The US and other European nations' military chains of command were aware of the illness ripping through trenches, bases, and hospitals but had a media blackout on public reports of it to avoid disruption of morale during wartime. We weren't at war this time, but pandemics are inextricable from international politics for the same reason everything else that has massive impact on people's health and safety across national borders is inextricable from international politics. I agree with you on the desire for depoliticization of the topic, but I lack a mechanism to get there; it's not like an independent agency run by, say, the UN would be free of politics on this topic.
TheBlight 3y ago
It's curious to me that deliberate act is the one option no one seems interested in entertaining as a possibility.
- burnished 3y ago
  Because it lacks motive. Further 'they did it to us' was pretty clearly sparked by fear. And it has been years; if some one did it deliberately then they failed to capitalize on it.
  - TheBlight 3y ago
    Who is "they"? Lots of people made lots of money from covid 19. There were also significant political ramifications.
    - burnished 3y ago
      Still no motive for a deliberate action. I'm having a hard time believing that releasing COVID-19 was a competing plan for accomplishing anyones goals.
      - TheBlight 3y ago
        Trillions of dollars is a significant motive.
  - oldpersonintx 3y ago
    [flagged]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
tootie 3y ago
The origins were rigorously challenged and pursued. They were just never conclusive. We don't get to know everything with certainty.

by Ajay-p 3y ago

mdgrech23 3y ago

[flagged]

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

This entire topic has gotten harebrained, so I’ll add to the fire: the part of our population that had a problem getting vaccinated would have responded much better to a perceived threat from a tangible adversary.

cempaka 3y ago
Are you under the impression that a large number of people who refused the COVID shots didn't also already believe that the virus came from a lab?
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Are you under the impression that a large number of people who refused the COVID shots didn't also already believe that the virus came from a lab? At its core, no. But there were a lot of people caught in the crossfire of information who simply got scared. For many of them, seeing SARS-CoV-2 as man-made could have counteracted that anxiety.
chrisco255 3y ago
The purpose of a vaccine is to inoculate against a disease. The vaccine failed miserably at that. If the disease were actually deadly enough, more people would have chanced an experimental mRNA injection into their bloodstream vs taking the disease on via natural immunity. You didn't have to propagandize and gaslight people to take the smallpox vaccine: it was self evident how deadly the disease was. And yet, the world was never shut down for small pox. It was clear very early on that for the vast majority of the population (over 99%) there was no tangible threat from Covid. And yet the theater of Covid was carried on. I still remember the footage out of Wuhan in early 2020 that scared the bejeezus out of me, of people just falling over in the middle of the streets and people with hazmat suits showing up and carting people off. Only in retrospect can we see that was all a production. People don't literally fall over in the middle of the street from Covid infection, fine one minute and near dead the next. So from that background, why would you trust anything the government tells you, when the government showed no good faith effort to seek truth or be reasonable? Many who pitched the lab leak theory were dismissed, shut down, censored, and ridiculed. From the same conformists that sought to manipulate healthy young people into taking an unnecessary vaccine and to give up a portion of their youth to terror and tyranny.
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > purpose of a vaccine is to inoculate against a disease. The vaccine failed miserably at that. Inoculation means to prevent disease. The mRNA vaccines were extraordinary at preventing Covid, the disease. Sterilisation is a nice to have, but far from mandatory--modern polio vaccines aren't sterilising. > didn't have to propagandize and gaslight people to take the smallpox vaccine: it was self evident how deadly the disease was A meaningful fraction of Americans, Brits and Canadians are generally against inoculation [1]. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9009899/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9009899/
  - somenameforme 3y ago
    "> A meaningful fraction of Americans, Brits and Canadians are generally against inoculation [1]." He said was. The disease was deadly, now it's threat to you is extremely low. If you weren't aware, we stopped vaccinating for small pox in 1972, as soon as it was no longer a threat in the United States. It would not be globally eradicated until 1979. And I think that's largely the problem many people have. Forcing vaccinations for diseases that pose little risk is illogical. In looking up information on this topic I somehow stumbled onto this [1] page. For instance now the seasonal flu vaccine is required for immigrants, and even in some schools!? The flu poses an extremely negligible risk to both of these groups. It's hard not to see the motivation behind this as being simply directing ever more $$$ to big-pharma interests, which the people making these rules are often directly invested in. It doesn't feel like rational public health guidance, and that destroys trust. [1] - https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/laws-regs/vaccination-immigration/revised-vaccination-immigration-faq.html https://www.cdc.gov/immigrantrefugeehealth/laws-regs/vaccina...
- falamboram2 3y ago
  [dead]
- RandomLensman 3y ago
  Some types of vaccinations against smallpox where available for centuries and there was also opposition to those. When there were local smallpox outbreaks in the West in the 20th century there were drastic containment measures.
Ajay-p 3y ago
Could you please expand on that? To be sure I understand correctly: Those who resisted taking the vaccine would have been more inclined to do so had a specific country been identified as the source, or that it may have been a leak from a laboratory? To state different: Was the unknown/disputed origins the catalyst for some not getting vaccinated?

tastyfreeze 3y ago

People are selfish. COVID may have started in China as a lab leak but the US likely funded it. Plenty of selfish reasons for people in government to squash the idea that COVID was a lab leak. If the lab leak turns out to be true I could see people demanding that the gallows be dusted off.

mc32 3y ago
We fund this research in a few countries around the world where their procedures are more lax so leaks are even more likely than they are in US based labs Plum island, fort Dietrick, etc). Still if US officials are responsible for lax oversight or funding poorly run labs they should be held responsible.
kylebenzle 3y ago
Even if it was accidentally leaked? That's extreme. I work with transgenic, not viruses, but mistakes happen and the death penalty for researchers is crazy.
- tastyfreeze 3y ago
  Yes, for the coverup. If it was a lab leak, we had the director of NIAID covering it up on national news. That is the kind of thing the people demand blood for.
- akira2501 3y ago
  There was a specific legal ban on this type of research, yet, the researchers continued anyways. It may have been "an accident," but that really doesn't afford them any excuse.
  - kylebenzle 3y ago
    We do this research everyday. Mutating a virus is not illegal, why do you even say that.
- infamouscow 3y ago
  The death penalty is a merciful punishment for going out of one's way to circumvent research bans that would have completely prevented a leak in the first place.

kylebenzle 3y ago

If China did leak COVID, as is looking more and more likely, by accident or on purpose, that is a POLITICAL issues. First if it was a leak, we'd have to cut off all funding and shared resources just to be safe, which we have already done. Next there would have to be some investigation that China would naturally be adversarial to. If it was natural they would want to collaborate (they are refusing to collaborate for the most part).

shadowgovt 3y ago

Spanish flu is called Spanish flu because Spain was one of the few countries not directly embroiled in World War I at the time, so when the flu was identified in their cities, their media reported on it. The US and other European nations' military chains of command were aware of the illness ripping through trenches, bases, and hospitals but had a media blackout on public reports of it to avoid disruption of morale during wartime. We weren't at war this time, but pandemics are inextricable from international politics for the same reason everything else that has massive impact on people's health and safety across national borders is inextricable from international politics. I agree with you on the desire for depoliticization of the topic, but I lack a mechanism to get there; it's not like an independent agency run by, say, the UN would be free of politics on this topic.

TheBlight 3y ago

It's curious to me that deliberate act is the one option no one seems interested in entertaining as a possibility.

burnished 3y ago
Because it lacks motive. Further 'they did it to us' was pretty clearly sparked by fear. And it has been years; if some one did it deliberately then they failed to capitalize on it.
- TheBlight 3y ago
  Who is "they"? Lots of people made lots of money from covid 19. There were also significant political ramifications.
  - burnished 3y ago
    Still no motive for a deliberate action. I'm having a hard time believing that releasing COVID-19 was a competing plan for accomplishing anyones goals.
    - TheBlight 3y ago
      Trillions of dollars is a significant motive.
- oldpersonintx 3y ago
  [flagged]

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

tootie 3y ago

The origins were rigorously challenged and pursued. They were just never conclusive. We don't get to know everything with certainty.