4 ms·

This highlights something tangential, but interesting nevertheless: Oftentimes getting embroiled in a civil lawsuit will, if impropriety is uncovered via the pr

This highlights something tangential, but interesting nevertheless: Oftentimes getting embroiled in a civil lawsuit will, if impropriety is uncovered via the process of discovery, lead to separate criminal charges. The lesson here is that if you have something to hide, and it looks like you're going to be dragged into civil court (especially Federal civil court,) you should rush to settle or beg for arbitration behind closed doors.

boeingUH60 3y ago
Texan billionaire Robert Brockman sued an Australian for stealing $20 million from his trust in 2020 [1]. A few months later, he was indicted for hiding $2 billion of income from the IRS [2]. He died before trial took place anyway.. 1- https://amp.smh.com.au/national/australian-barrister-denies-us20m-theft-from-a-billionaire-s-trust-20200522-p54vl6.html https://amp.smh.com.au/national/australian-barrister-denies-... 2- https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ceo-multibillion-dollar-software-company-indicted-decades-long-tax-evasion-and-wire-fraud https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ceo-multibillion-dollar-softw...
- chatmasta 3y ago
  I wonder if the target of his civil lawsuit could have ratted him to the IRS and collected a whistleblower payment...
  - mjan22640 3y ago
    how much is that?
    - chatmasta 3y ago
      Apparently between 15 and 30 percent of the recovered proceeds: > In general, the IRS will pay an award of at least 15 percent, but not more than 30 percent of the proceeds collected attributable to the information submitted by the whistleblower. https://www.irs.gov/compliance/whistleblower-office https://www.irs.gov/compliance/whistleblower-office
      - hinkley 3y ago
        On (taxes and fines on) 2 billion? That’s practically conspiracy-to-whistleblow territory. Get a couple coworkers to help you collect evidence.
        hiatus 3y ago
        You might be interested to know that there are apparently companies out there that identify people within organizations that may have the access and appropriate demeanor and attempt to get them to whistleblow. It was covered in an episode of Darknet Diaries. https://darknetdiaries.com/transcript/80/ https://darknetdiaries.com/transcript/80/
        selimthegrim 3y ago
        Not barratry, not champerty, is there a term of art for this?
- MiscCompFacts 3y ago
  Did he actually die, or conveniently “die”? I guess it’s hard to know.
  - mikeyouse 3y ago
    He'd be 82 so it's not implausible that he actually died last year - though he claimed he couldn't participate in his defense against the IRS charges since he had dementia and the government called 'bullshit' on that. Amusingly, the government has some funny details like he learned that his Bermuda-based co-conspirator had been raided by tax officials while on a fishing trip in Alaska, and then 1 day later emailed a neurologist seeking an appointment to diagnose dementia. Looks like it was a successful Trump-like attempt to just delay things forever by filing dozens of motions; First mention of a competency hearing was in January 2020, they assigned experts, delayed the examination a bunch of times, appealed certain aspects of it, eventually in August 2020 the experts found him competent, which he then appealed again, and again and again -- after several more hearings and briefs where his lawyers lied about the expert testimony, it was nearly 15 months later that he was formerly found competent to stand trial in May 2021 Vista Partners evaded billions in taxes for almost two decades, it was investigated and exposed in 2018, IRS/DOJ filed charges in 2020, his partner pleaded guilty in late 2020, Brockman was charged in Jan 2021, found competent in May 2022 and then died in August 2022 a free man. Sounds like a real scumbag.
    - bozhark 3y ago
      Sounds alive
JumpCrisscross 3y ago
> or beg for arbitration behind closed doors Arbitration records aren’t protected from disclosure to law enforcement.
- i_am_jl 3y ago
  "Not protected from disclosure to law enforcement" is still better than "entered into the public record by default" as a result of being offered as evidence in a civil trial.
  - chrisweekly 3y ago
    All the more so because law enforcement agents would require cause (warrant? subpoena? IANAL) to obtain the records, right?
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > law enforcement agents would require cause (warrant? subpoena? IANAL) to obtain the records, right? No. If I took you to arbitration and think you acted illegally, I can send the case documents to law enforcement. Most people don't do this, because it's a hassle. But if you pissed me off or were morally offensive, hell yes I'm doing it. After that, yes, they need to execute searches to follow up on the information.
      - beachy 3y ago
        > If I took you to arbitration and think you acted illegally, I can send the case documents to law enforcement. Only if the terms of arbitration allow you to share said documents.
        vkou 3y ago
        There aren't any terms of arbitration that can prevent you from sharing evidence of a criminal conspiracy with the police. An NDA cannot stop you from reporting criminal conduct. You can be sued by the criminal for doing so, but this is America, you can be sued for anything by anyone. It doesn't mean that they'll win (And will look a hell of a lot like witness intimidation in their criminal trial.)
avar 3y ago
Wouldn't it be better to rush to a country without an extradition treaty with the US?
- hinkley 3y ago
  At this point are there any that don’t also have huge problems with blackmail and extortion? It’s like being the weakest pirate on Pirate Island. You might have a bad time.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- Tao3300 3y ago
  If I had to guess, no.
- idontpost 3y ago
  [dead]
axus 3y ago
I wish the lesson were "If something might be criminal, check first and then don't do it". Makes you wonder if anyone has started an "AI-powered legal database miner as-a-service" for rent to zealous prosecutors.
- donatj 3y ago
  Basically everything is criminal in the eyes of the right prosecutor. Narrowly avoiding their gaze is about all you can do.
  - qingcharles 3y ago
    Having been in the criminal justice system I tell people "don't do anything that might look criminal." (and don't make enemies of police either, as they can easily set you up/charge you) You can lose a whole decade of your life in jail waiting for a trial that never comes. Source: experience.

boeingUH60 3y ago

Texan billionaire Robert Brockman sued an Australian for stealing $20 million from his trust in 2020 [1]. A few months later, he was indicted for hiding $2 billion of income from the IRS [2]. He died before trial took place anyway.. 1- https://amp.smh.com.au/national/australian-barrister-denies-us20m-theft-from-a-billionaire-s-trust-20200522-p54vl6.html https://amp.smh.com.au/national/australian-barrister-denies-... 2- https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ceo-multibillion-dollar-software-company-indicted-decades-long-tax-evasion-and-wire-fraud https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/ceo-multibillion-dollar-softw...

chatmasta 3y ago
I wonder if the target of his civil lawsuit could have ratted him to the IRS and collected a whistleblower payment...
- mjan22640 3y ago
  how much is that?
  - chatmasta 3y ago
    Apparently between 15 and 30 percent of the recovered proceeds: > In general, the IRS will pay an award of at least 15 percent, but not more than 30 percent of the proceeds collected attributable to the information submitted by the whistleblower. https://www.irs.gov/compliance/whistleblower-office https://www.irs.gov/compliance/whistleblower-office
    - hinkley 3y ago
      On (taxes and fines on) 2 billion? That’s practically conspiracy-to-whistleblow territory. Get a couple coworkers to help you collect evidence.
      - hiatus 3y ago
        You might be interested to know that there are apparently companies out there that identify people within organizations that may have the access and appropriate demeanor and attempt to get them to whistleblow. It was covered in an episode of Darknet Diaries. https://darknetdiaries.com/transcript/80/ https://darknetdiaries.com/transcript/80/
        selimthegrim 3y ago
        Not barratry, not champerty, is there a term of art for this?
MiscCompFacts 3y ago
Did he actually die, or conveniently “die”? I guess it’s hard to know.
- mikeyouse 3y ago
  He'd be 82 so it's not implausible that he actually died last year - though he claimed he couldn't participate in his defense against the IRS charges since he had dementia and the government called 'bullshit' on that. Amusingly, the government has some funny details like he learned that his Bermuda-based co-conspirator had been raided by tax officials while on a fishing trip in Alaska, and then 1 day later emailed a neurologist seeking an appointment to diagnose dementia. Looks like it was a successful Trump-like attempt to just delay things forever by filing dozens of motions; First mention of a competency hearing was in January 2020, they assigned experts, delayed the examination a bunch of times, appealed certain aspects of it, eventually in August 2020 the experts found him competent, which he then appealed again, and again and again -- after several more hearings and briefs where his lawyers lied about the expert testimony, it was nearly 15 months later that he was formerly found competent to stand trial in May 2021 Vista Partners evaded billions in taxes for almost two decades, it was investigated and exposed in 2018, IRS/DOJ filed charges in 2020, his partner pleaded guilty in late 2020, Brockman was charged in Jan 2021, found competent in May 2022 and then died in August 2022 a free man. Sounds like a real scumbag.
  - bozhark 3y ago
    Sounds alive

JumpCrisscross 3y ago

> or beg for arbitration behind closed doors Arbitration records aren’t protected from disclosure to law enforcement.

i_am_jl 3y ago
"Not protected from disclosure to law enforcement" is still better than "entered into the public record by default" as a result of being offered as evidence in a civil trial.
- chrisweekly 3y ago
  All the more so because law enforcement agents would require cause (warrant? subpoena? IANAL) to obtain the records, right?
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > law enforcement agents would require cause (warrant? subpoena? IANAL) to obtain the records, right? No. If I took you to arbitration and think you acted illegally, I can send the case documents to law enforcement. Most people don't do this, because it's a hassle. But if you pissed me off or were morally offensive, hell yes I'm doing it. After that, yes, they need to execute searches to follow up on the information.
    - beachy 3y ago
      > If I took you to arbitration and think you acted illegally, I can send the case documents to law enforcement. Only if the terms of arbitration allow you to share said documents.
      - vkou 3y ago
        There aren't any terms of arbitration that can prevent you from sharing evidence of a criminal conspiracy with the police. An NDA cannot stop you from reporting criminal conduct. You can be sued by the criminal for doing so, but this is America, you can be sued for anything by anyone. It doesn't mean that they'll win (And will look a hell of a lot like witness intimidation in their criminal trial.)

avar 3y ago

Wouldn't it be better to rush to a country without an extradition treaty with the US?

hinkley 3y ago
At this point are there any that don’t also have huge problems with blackmail and extortion? It’s like being the weakest pirate on Pirate Island. You might have a bad time.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Tao3300 3y ago
If I had to guess, no.
idontpost 3y ago
[dead]

axus 3y ago

I wish the lesson were "If something might be criminal, check first and then don't do it". Makes you wonder if anyone has started an "AI-powered legal database miner as-a-service" for rent to zealous prosecutors.

donatj 3y ago
Basically everything is criminal in the eyes of the right prosecutor. Narrowly avoiding their gaze is about all you can do.
- qingcharles 3y ago
  Having been in the criminal justice system I tell people "don't do anything that might look criminal." (and don't make enemies of police either, as they can easily set you up/charge you) You can lose a whole decade of your life in jail waiting for a trial that never comes. Source: experience.