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I'm glad that things are slowing down here. Virology research is one of those things no one ever thought about, but the fact that a single careless lab was able

I'm glad that things are slowing down here. Virology research is one of those things no one ever thought about, but the fact that a single careless lab was able to release a virus that killed tens of millions around the world should be a wake up call that the researchers were outpacing the regulations. The entire industry around the world has to be heavily regulated at this point to prevent this from happening again.

pmarreck 3y ago
> the fact that a single careless lab was able to release a virus that killed tens of millions around the world Wait, is this canon now? If so, how is China going to not garner the hatred of the entire world?
- galangalalgol 3y ago
  I haven't read much in the last year that didn't consider it extremely likely. The lab was receiving funding from other nations including the US, so I don't think hatred specifically and only for China is rational, but being rational is so cliche. What is 100% accepted and documented is that the lab in question had a history of repeated leaks and failures to follow protocol. When a Chinese nuke plant doesn't follow protocols other nations use, that is one thing, but given global ramifications, it seems like even otherwise adversarial nations could agree on a set of safeguards for such labs and enforce them. That is assuming the aluminium fedora crowd are wrong and it wasn't like that scene in goonies where they hand Chunk a picture frame they want broken knowing he isn't very coordinated.
  - wredue 3y ago
    Sorry, where is this documented that this lab is known for leaks? To my knowledge, as of 3 months ago, the only “tangible” evidence for a lab leak was that china cleaned up before the WHO arrived and could better investigate. You are the first person I have ever seen, after hundreds of articles, claim that the lab is known for leaks.
    - galangalalgol 3y ago
      https://www.vox.com/22453571/lab-leak-covid-19-coronavirus-hypothesis-wuhan-virology-china https://www.vox.com/22453571/lab-leak-covid-19-coronavirus-h... That is where I thought I got it from, but I don't see it just scanning through. Either it came from somewhere else, or I got it confused in the section where they were talking about a Beijing lab. If so they have my apologies.
      - galangalalgol 3y ago
        It was this one I think. Edit:https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_chinese-lab-checkered-safety-record-draws-scrutiny-over-covid-19/6187947.html https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_chinese-lab-chec...
    - pmarreck 3y ago
      https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_chinese-lab-checkered-safety-record-draws-scrutiny-over-covid-19/6187947.html https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_chinese-lab-chec... > Two State Department cables show that American embassy officials in Beijing made several visits to the research facility and sent two official warnings back to Washington in early 2018 about the lab’s inadequate safety measures. This was at a time when researchers were conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats, The Washington Post reported, citing intelligence sources. The thing that China does which deserves the most hatred, however, is not the accident: It is the coverup. It's one thing to fuck up; it's another thing to hinder investigation of the fuckup, while trying in vain to "save face," which ends up just resulting in more deaths. A sincere person or organization would say "OK, one of us screwed up, now please help us fix it". It's literally the most basic ethics/honesty lesson we teach kids (at least in the West)- "if you screwed up, 'fess up, and the punishment will be less": > While the U.S. investigates, officials say the Chinese government’s continuing lack of transparency, including with respect to the Wuhan Institute of Virology, raises questions over how the outbreak began. Officials also accuse Beijing of still not sharing all of their data with the international community. > Instead, there is Chinese evidence that the lab had safety problems. VOA has located state media reports showing that there were security incidents flagged by national inspections as well as reported accidents that occurred when workers were trying to catch bats for study.
- notrlyskeptik 3y ago
  [dead]
- cdchn 3y ago
  What should the world do about it other than grumble disapprovingly?
somewhereoutth 3y ago
Except of course that isn't what happened. All evidence points to zoonotic spillover, aggravated by our encroachment on previously undisturbed natural areas and global warming. Sadly, it was both political useful ('the Chinese did it!'), and ideologically useful ('a few faulty humans did this, like in the movies'), to blame the lab in Wuhan. By doing so, we can absolve ourselves of blame, and of need to take action - action both to mitigate the effects of this pandemic, and to prepare for the next. The next being an inevitability, just a question of when (within 10 years is my uneducated guess)
- purpleblue 3y ago
  There is ZERO evidence that it's zoonotic spillover. In almost 4 years they haven't found the source. There's actual hard evidence that it came from the Wuhan lab.
- oldpersonintx 3y ago
  > All evidence points to zoonotic spillover, aggravated by our encroachment on previously undisturbed natural areas and global warming. what evidence? in any case, thats fancy language for: "Donald Trump was a proponent of the lab leak hypothesis so we had to come up with an alternate theory lest we appear to be in agreement with Donald Trump...so we've decided that it was people eating Pangolin Soup"
  - burnished 3y ago
    Because that is the way you'd get diseases like this normally. The folks claiming that there is evidence only for their theory are incorrect.
  - somewhereoutth 3y ago
    Nobody who has any sense is even remotely interested in agreeing or disagreeing with Trump - he could not be part of any meaningful debate, anymore than a 5 year old, we are just disappointed he became POTUS.
- toomim 3y ago
  It's not absolving anyone from blame. The lab leak theory blames all parties-- it points out that the US NIH funded the research being done in Wuhan, which is public record. That's leaving aside the specious claim that there's no evidence of lab leak. The evidence of first outbreaks being near the lab are evidence of it being a lab leak, just as the first outbreaks going through a wet market are evidence of natural evolution. We have evidence for both theories.
RandomLensman 3y ago
How is that in any way the currently accepted origin of the pandemic?
- SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
  I know, it's crazy right? There are people here that just blindly assume that because the NIH lied about 1-degree indirectly funding gain of function research on coronaviruses at China's only level4 bio lab, where workers were just happened to be some of the first that got sick, where security protocols were admitted to being flawed, and the Chinese government came in and deleted data... that any of this means it came from there!? When in reality we all know China said it maybe came from a wet market in the same city (as the only Level4 biolab), because someone ate a bat. You and I have higher burdens of proof than these "conspiracy theory" pushers.
  - RandomLensman 3y ago
    Anyone can cherrypick what they believe - it just doesn't mean much in the real world. With respect to the lab leak hypothesis largely a US phenomenon, though.
    - mardifoufs 3y ago
      Uh? It's basically what everyone believes almost everywhere I went. In North Africa for sure, in Canada it's a bit less common but still extremely widespread. So I'm not sure you meant by it being a US only phenomenon? If anything it's actually a pretty divisive debate in the US,.
      - RandomLensman 3y ago
        Who are you talking to? No-one I speak to in Europe cares but some US media do, though. Some niche circles might in Europe, but then there are hobbyist for everything.
        3y ago

pmarreck 3y ago

> the fact that a single careless lab was able to release a virus that killed tens of millions around the world Wait, is this canon now? If so, how is China going to not garner the hatred of the entire world?

galangalalgol 3y ago
I haven't read much in the last year that didn't consider it extremely likely. The lab was receiving funding from other nations including the US, so I don't think hatred specifically and only for China is rational, but being rational is so cliche. What is 100% accepted and documented is that the lab in question had a history of repeated leaks and failures to follow protocol. When a Chinese nuke plant doesn't follow protocols other nations use, that is one thing, but given global ramifications, it seems like even otherwise adversarial nations could agree on a set of safeguards for such labs and enforce them. That is assuming the aluminium fedora crowd are wrong and it wasn't like that scene in goonies where they hand Chunk a picture frame they want broken knowing he isn't very coordinated.
- wredue 3y ago
  Sorry, where is this documented that this lab is known for leaks? To my knowledge, as of 3 months ago, the only “tangible” evidence for a lab leak was that china cleaned up before the WHO arrived and could better investigate. You are the first person I have ever seen, after hundreds of articles, claim that the lab is known for leaks.
  - galangalalgol 3y ago
    https://www.vox.com/22453571/lab-leak-covid-19-coronavirus-hypothesis-wuhan-virology-china https://www.vox.com/22453571/lab-leak-covid-19-coronavirus-h... That is where I thought I got it from, but I don't see it just scanning through. Either it came from somewhere else, or I got it confused in the section where they were talking about a Beijing lab. If so they have my apologies.
    - galangalalgol 3y ago
      It was this one I think. Edit:https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_chinese-lab-checkered-safety-record-draws-scrutiny-over-covid-19/6187947.html https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_chinese-lab-chec...
  - pmarreck 3y ago
    https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_chinese-lab-checkered-safety-record-draws-scrutiny-over-covid-19/6187947.html https://www.voanews.com/a/covid-19-pandemic_chinese-lab-chec... > Two State Department cables show that American embassy officials in Beijing made several visits to the research facility and sent two official warnings back to Washington in early 2018 about the lab’s inadequate safety measures. This was at a time when researchers were conducting risky studies on coronaviruses from bats, The Washington Post reported, citing intelligence sources. The thing that China does which deserves the most hatred, however, is not the accident: It is the coverup. It's one thing to fuck up; it's another thing to hinder investigation of the fuckup, while trying in vain to "save face," which ends up just resulting in more deaths. A sincere person or organization would say "OK, one of us screwed up, now please help us fix it". It's literally the most basic ethics/honesty lesson we teach kids (at least in the West)- "if you screwed up, 'fess up, and the punishment will be less": > While the U.S. investigates, officials say the Chinese government’s continuing lack of transparency, including with respect to the Wuhan Institute of Virology, raises questions over how the outbreak began. Officials also accuse Beijing of still not sharing all of their data with the international community. > Instead, there is Chinese evidence that the lab had safety problems. VOA has located state media reports showing that there were security incidents flagged by national inspections as well as reported accidents that occurred when workers were trying to catch bats for study.
notrlyskeptik 3y ago
[dead]
cdchn 3y ago
What should the world do about it other than grumble disapprovingly?

somewhereoutth 3y ago

Except of course that isn't what happened. All evidence points to zoonotic spillover, aggravated by our encroachment on previously undisturbed natural areas and global warming. Sadly, it was both political useful ('the Chinese did it!'), and ideologically useful ('a few faulty humans did this, like in the movies'), to blame the lab in Wuhan. By doing so, we can absolve ourselves of blame, and of need to take action - action both to mitigate the effects of this pandemic, and to prepare for the next. The next being an inevitability, just a question of when (within 10 years is my uneducated guess)

purpleblue 3y ago
There is ZERO evidence that it's zoonotic spillover. In almost 4 years they haven't found the source. There's actual hard evidence that it came from the Wuhan lab.
oldpersonintx 3y ago
> All evidence points to zoonotic spillover, aggravated by our encroachment on previously undisturbed natural areas and global warming. what evidence? in any case, thats fancy language for: "Donald Trump was a proponent of the lab leak hypothesis so we had to come up with an alternate theory lest we appear to be in agreement with Donald Trump...so we've decided that it was people eating Pangolin Soup"
- burnished 3y ago
  Because that is the way you'd get diseases like this normally. The folks claiming that there is evidence only for their theory are incorrect.
- somewhereoutth 3y ago
  Nobody who has any sense is even remotely interested in agreeing or disagreeing with Trump - he could not be part of any meaningful debate, anymore than a 5 year old, we are just disappointed he became POTUS.
toomim 3y ago
It's not absolving anyone from blame. The lab leak theory blames all parties-- it points out that the US NIH funded the research being done in Wuhan, which is public record. That's leaving aside the specious claim that there's no evidence of lab leak. The evidence of first outbreaks being near the lab are evidence of it being a lab leak, just as the first outbreaks going through a wet market are evidence of natural evolution. We have evidence for both theories.

RandomLensman 3y ago

How is that in any way the currently accepted origin of the pandemic?

SV_BubbleTime 3y ago
I know, it's crazy right? There are people here that just blindly assume that because the NIH lied about 1-degree indirectly funding gain of function research on coronaviruses at China's only level4 bio lab, where workers were just happened to be some of the first that got sick, where security protocols were admitted to being flawed, and the Chinese government came in and deleted data... that any of this means it came from there!? When in reality we all know China said it maybe came from a wet market in the same city (as the only Level4 biolab), because someone ate a bat. You and I have higher burdens of proof than these "conspiracy theory" pushers.
- RandomLensman 3y ago
  Anyone can cherrypick what they believe - it just doesn't mean much in the real world. With respect to the lab leak hypothesis largely a US phenomenon, though.
  - mardifoufs 3y ago
    Uh? It's basically what everyone believes almost everywhere I went. In North Africa for sure, in Canada it's a bit less common but still extremely widespread. So I'm not sure you meant by it being a US only phenomenon? If anything it's actually a pretty divisive debate in the US,.
    - RandomLensman 3y ago
      Who are you talking to? No-one I speak to in Europe cares but some US media do, though. Some niche circles might in Europe, but then there are hobbyist for everything.
      - 3y ago