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An Artist* utilizing different mediums & tools to achieve an intended vision is different than someone typing a few words on a whim and re-generating until the

An Artist* utilizing different mediums & tools to achieve an intended vision is different than someone typing a few words on a whim and re-generating until the magic box outputs something roughly close to what they want. Using ML as part of an overall workflow is much more gray. The line is where we draw it, and we have to draw it somewhere. It's clear to anyone that typing prompts into a black box (that likely was trained on stolen art) and expending zero effort other than selecting from the randomly generated images is different than the process you described. * simply writing prompts doesn't make anyone an artist

TeMPOraL 3y ago
> and re-generating until the magic box outputs something roughly close to what they want That is a form of a creative human effort. Not that different from a photographer who shoots a couple dozen photos on the go, and later selects one or few they like best, to publish without further retouching. It's gonna be more blurry when someone loops SD derivative with GPT-4V derivative, to have the latter rate the output of the former, and the loop running until the rating model deems the picture good enough.
- huimang 3y ago
  Someone writing words in a prompt and a photographer setting up a photoshoot are completely different! Different enough that we can easily draw a line between these activities. In the above case, the photographer had a particular vision in mind and fulfilled it with their camera, choosing the scenery, lighting, model, colors, framing, and overall composition. They set up all of those factors, and then chose the best take from the portraits to use for further work. It was deliberate and done with specific intent. There is no way one can argue this is the same as entering words into a prompt with a straight face.
  - throwthrow1710 3y ago
    >There is no way one can argue this is the same as entering words into a prompt with a straight face. I have no stakes in this game but yeah, I think they are the exactly the same. I always thought of photography as a "phony" art, unlike classical canvas painters. You're using a machine that does all the work for you. In this case, the prompt is the camera positioning, lighting etc. Not that any of this matters anyway, so don't waste energy with an uphill battle. As long as they like the actual result, people won't care.
  - TeMPOraL 3y ago
    > Someone writing words in a prompt and a photographer setting up a photoshoot are completely different! Different enough that we can easily draw a line between these activities. That's why I didn't write "a photographer setting up a photoshoot"; I specifically wrote "a photographer who shoots a couple dozen photos on the go". Perhaps I should've written "a person owning a DSLR" or "amateur instagrammer" instead. Point is, when discussing copyright both in general, and wrt. generative AI in particular, people tend to bucket together casual, amateur and professional photographers, making it seem that the former do the same kind of creative work as the latter. But that's not true, and not fair - there isn't much more effort or creativity going into casual photography, than there is into iterating a stable diffusion prompt until one finds something they like. Professional photographers have their generative-AI-user counterpart, but in form of an artist or graphic designer using AI-assist tools as part of their overall workflow.
Our_Benefactors 3y ago
> simply writing prompts doesn't make anyone an artist Being an artist is a self-designated term so you’re only projecting your own biases with this statement.
- huimang 3y ago
  Anyone can call themselves whatever they want, but others aren't necessarily going to acknowledge it. Just like how software developers call themselves "engineers". People writing prompts can certainly attempt to call themselves "artists", but they will not be perceived or acknowledged as such by literally anyone who takes making art seriously.
  - Our_Benefactors 3y ago
    Who is the arbiter of terminology? Your argument is entirely unconvincing. Barring places like Canada where the term “engineer” is tied to actual credentials, no such thing exists for artists. Can you imagine, a board of people to license you for artistic practice? A hell I’d rather not visit.

TeMPOraL 3y ago

> and re-generating until the magic box outputs something roughly close to what they want That is a form of a creative human effort. Not that different from a photographer who shoots a couple dozen photos on the go, and later selects one or few they like best, to publish without further retouching. It's gonna be more blurry when someone loops SD derivative with GPT-4V derivative, to have the latter rate the output of the former, and the loop running until the rating model deems the picture good enough.

huimang 3y ago
Someone writing words in a prompt and a photographer setting up a photoshoot are completely different! Different enough that we can easily draw a line between these activities. In the above case, the photographer had a particular vision in mind and fulfilled it with their camera, choosing the scenery, lighting, model, colors, framing, and overall composition. They set up all of those factors, and then chose the best take from the portraits to use for further work. It was deliberate and done with specific intent. There is no way one can argue this is the same as entering words into a prompt with a straight face.
- throwthrow1710 3y ago
  >There is no way one can argue this is the same as entering words into a prompt with a straight face. I have no stakes in this game but yeah, I think they are the exactly the same. I always thought of photography as a "phony" art, unlike classical canvas painters. You're using a machine that does all the work for you. In this case, the prompt is the camera positioning, lighting etc. Not that any of this matters anyway, so don't waste energy with an uphill battle. As long as they like the actual result, people won't care.
- TeMPOraL 3y ago
  > Someone writing words in a prompt and a photographer setting up a photoshoot are completely different! Different enough that we can easily draw a line between these activities. That's why I didn't write "a photographer setting up a photoshoot"; I specifically wrote "a photographer who shoots a couple dozen photos on the go". Perhaps I should've written "a person owning a DSLR" or "amateur instagrammer" instead. Point is, when discussing copyright both in general, and wrt. generative AI in particular, people tend to bucket together casual, amateur and professional photographers, making it seem that the former do the same kind of creative work as the latter. But that's not true, and not fair - there isn't much more effort or creativity going into casual photography, than there is into iterating a stable diffusion prompt until one finds something they like. Professional photographers have their generative-AI-user counterpart, but in form of an artist or graphic designer using AI-assist tools as part of their overall workflow.

Our_Benefactors 3y ago

> simply writing prompts doesn't make anyone an artist Being an artist is a self-designated term so you’re only projecting your own biases with this statement.

huimang 3y ago
Anyone can call themselves whatever they want, but others aren't necessarily going to acknowledge it. Just like how software developers call themselves "engineers". People writing prompts can certainly attempt to call themselves "artists", but they will not be perceived or acknowledged as such by literally anyone who takes making art seriously.
- Our_Benefactors 3y ago
  Who is the arbiter of terminology? Your argument is entirely unconvincing. Barring places like Canada where the term “engineer” is tied to actual credentials, no such thing exists for artists. Can you imagine, a board of people to license you for artistic practice? A hell I’d rather not visit.