8 ms·

There is a Walmart in my metro area that is responsible for like 80% of all police calls within their municipality. This is the same Walmart that leeches off so

There is a Walmart in my metro area that is responsible for like 80% of all police calls within their municipality. This is the same Walmart that leeches off society in other ways like paying sub-living wages so that employees need to rely on social safety nets to survive. I'm not sure if they have to hire private security, but this is a prime example of a business that should be securing itself or changing location.

NickC25 3y ago
They should be mandated to hire private security. If they are utilizing the majority of the resources available but aren't willing to pay the real costs of that, well, they need to suck it up and pay.
- ahtihn 3y ago
  I thought the US was like the most advanced nation in the world? And businesses are supposed to pay for their own security instead of relying on police? What next? Families of murder victims should cover the cost of the investigation?
  - NickC25 3y ago
    ITT: people defending the actions of a corporation owned by a family worth over 230 billion USD. Businesses should expect that society protects them, sure. But those same businesses can't then go and bribe the government to cut worker protection laws, labor laws, can't slash wages and expect that the government covers the costs of labor, etc... If Walmart paid their workers lavishly, gave them huge pensions, didn't engage in far-right lobbying to diminish worker protections, didn't demolish the proverbial Main Street all across America, sure, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and say that we should cover their security costs. But look at their actions over the last 35 years....they've enriched themselves greatly as a corporation, bribed the government, and told regular Americans to pound sand.
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      And provided inexpensive goods to the masses.
      - spondylosaurus 3y ago
        https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/walmart-effect.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/walmart-effect.asp
        WalterBright 3y ago
        I shop at Walmart now and then, and benefit from the low prices. So does everyone else who shops there.
      - NickC25 3y ago
        Walmart is able to provide cheap goods because it can strong-arm providers into taking a loss or operating at a break-even point just for the chance to sell at Walmart. It can also provide cheap goods because they pay their workers jack shit and instruct employees to use government subsidized healthcare and insurance. It's totally possible to provide good pay, healthcare, etc... to employees, still have healthy enough margin % to make Wall Street happy, keep the C-Suite well paid, all while providing a great service at competitive prices to consumers. Maybe not enough to enrich the owners to a quarter trillion dollars in net worth, but plenty enough to keep the ship going. Case in point: CostCo. Whole Foods prior to Amazon was another.
        WalterBright 3y ago
        1. Nobody makes providers sell thru Walmart. 2. Nobody makes anyone buy from Walmart. 3. Nobody makes anyone work for Walmart. 4. Anybody is free to spin up a competitor to Walmart. 5. Walmart is not responsible for government wealth transfer programs. > It's totally possible to provide [...] You and anyone else are free to do so.
        3y ago
  - tomcam 3y ago
    In many of the places Wal-Mart has the most problems, both police and private security are sharply limited in what actions they can take against shoplifters. And places like California, Oregon, and Washington won’t prosecute for crimes under about $950. What do you propose Wal-Mart do in these localities?
    - brvsft 3y ago
      A lot of people are under the impression that these stores can just eat the cost with insurance, which is, of course, an absurd notion because then the insurance company is losing too much money and will raise the premiums. Then Walmart, etc. can't afford the insurance unless they close their most problematic locations. People engage in a lot of magical thinking to justify theft since it seems like a harmless act. Thieves are just trying to feed their families! Insurance will cover it! Etc.! It's really unfortunate, they're going to learn the hard way as not only Walmart but other retail stores in their areas flee.
      - mrguyorama 3y ago
        No, insurance doesn't have to cover it, because even in these cases where large retailers are crying about theft, it's still not the primary cause of shrinkage in their businesses! Grocers still lose more product to employee theft or just breaking stuff during handling. Even in California where there's some conspiracy theory about how "It's the DAs fault the police aren't doing anything", as if it's the police's responsibility, or even their jurisdiction, to pick and choose who should go to jail. Cops should be bringing in people violating the law even if nobody ever went to prison!
        scythe 3y ago
        At least one source gives shoplifting as the plurality of shrinkage at 36%, with employee theft close behind at 30%. But if theft isn't prosecuted, this would seem to affect incentives for both shoplifting and employee theft. https://lithospos.com/blog/shrinkage-in-retail-and-how-to-prevent-it/ https://lithospos.com/blog/shrinkage-in-retail-and-how-to-pr... Together this puts theft at a solid majority (66%) of shrinkage.
  - brvsft 3y ago
    It's not unheard of in the US. The missing person case of Jennifer Kesse in Orlando, FL comes to mind. Her parents even had to file a lawsuit against the police because they refused to cooperate with private investigators after failing to make progress on the case.
  - gumby 3y ago
    Well, banks hire private security guards, have stong safes (well, back when they handled cash) etc under practical pressure and pressure from their insurers. They don't rely solely on the police. On the other hand a lemonade stand will generally rely entirely on the police and on peoples' good nature. I sure hope they aren't armed! So on the spectrum between the two, don't we want a society where almost all interactions don't rely on private security guards? I feel like there has been an explosion of private security guards over the past 30 years, but I do see them in old movies so I don't know if my impression is correct.
Ajedi32 3y ago
To me that actually sounds like a clear example of a business that shouldn't have to hire private security. At least with bars you can claim that the bar is indirectly responsible for instigating the distributive behavior by serving people alcohol. I don't know how you make that argument for a Walmart.
- nanidin 3y ago
  In my state municipalities are required to spend 25% of their budget on police. So effectively 20% of the tax base of the municipality is being used to police Walmart. Walmart isn’t the only business in town, there are lots of businesses, convenience stores, restaurants, you name it - they share what’s left after Walmart, and it doesn’t seem fair.
- hunter2_ 3y ago
  I suppose an argument is that if they stop undercutting the prices of smaller businesses, then the rowdy behavior wouldn't gravitate toward them, it would be more evenly distributed. But letting the police focus 80% of such efforts there (instead of forcing some sort of change that blurs their focus) might not be a bad thing.
FuriouslyAdrift 3y ago
Walmarts are the epicenter of crime in many small towns. They are experimenting with putting police stations INSIDE the store, now. https://www.grocerydive.com/news/Atlanta-Walmart-reopen-store-with-police-substation/692707/ https://www.grocerydive.com/news/Atlanta-Walmart-reopen-stor...
- brvsft 3y ago
  Seems inevitable when it replaced all the other retail stores with merchandise you can steal. Where else would I go to steal something in a small town with a Walmart?
- Semaphor 3y ago
  Only semi related, but we have a synagogue here with it's own small police station. But I'm in Germany, it has been burned twice already.
  - SauciestGNU 3y ago
    Pardon the insensitive question, but burned twice since the Holocaust? Is violent antisemitism still so prevalent? Did denazification fail so badly?
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      It doesn't take a lot of extremists to cause a security threat; "lone wolf" scenarios are absolutely something Jewish places of worship have to worry about. Not just in Germany, and doubly so this week. Germany had a far-right coup attempt brewing late last year: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/07/germany-coup-arrests-reichsbuerger-heinrich/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/07/germany-coup... > German authorities on Wednesday arrested 25 people suspected of plotting to use armed force to storm parliament and violently overthrow the state, marking one of the country’s largest-ever raids targeting right-wing extremists. > Those arrested included a 71-year-old German aristocrat, a former lawmaker from the right-wing Alternative for Germany party and at least one former armed forces member, according to the public prosecutor and officials.
bko 3y ago
Walmart hourly salaries start at 14-19 an hour depending on location. They also abide by all the rules. What are you comparing it to? Mom and pop shops that have kids working there in getting paid under the counter at a lower wage? https://fortune.com/2023/09/08/walmart-cuts-starting-wage-new-employees-walmart-jobs-cashier-online-orders-minimum-wage-benefits/ https://fortune.com/2023/09/08/walmart-cuts-starting-wage-ne...
- xkekjrktllss 3y ago
  14-19 an hour is atrocious in 2023, and of course most of these employees are limited to part-time hours so the company can avoid paying for benefits, all while advising employees to use food stamps. Medicaid is rarely available to such employees because they will often make barely too much income to qualify so they try going without insurance. It's despicable and frankly so is anybody defending such arrangements.
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  I assume they are comparing it to its direct competitors. Target is the main one.

NickC25 3y ago

They should be mandated to hire private security. If they are utilizing the majority of the resources available but aren't willing to pay the real costs of that, well, they need to suck it up and pay.

ahtihn 3y ago
I thought the US was like the most advanced nation in the world? And businesses are supposed to pay for their own security instead of relying on police? What next? Families of murder victims should cover the cost of the investigation?
- NickC25 3y ago
  ITT: people defending the actions of a corporation owned by a family worth over 230 billion USD. Businesses should expect that society protects them, sure. But those same businesses can't then go and bribe the government to cut worker protection laws, labor laws, can't slash wages and expect that the government covers the costs of labor, etc... If Walmart paid their workers lavishly, gave them huge pensions, didn't engage in far-right lobbying to diminish worker protections, didn't demolish the proverbial Main Street all across America, sure, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and say that we should cover their security costs. But look at their actions over the last 35 years....they've enriched themselves greatly as a corporation, bribed the government, and told regular Americans to pound sand.
  - WalterBright 3y ago
    And provided inexpensive goods to the masses.
    - spondylosaurus 3y ago
      https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/walmart-effect.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/walmart-effect.asp
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        I shop at Walmart now and then, and benefit from the low prices. So does everyone else who shops there.
    - NickC25 3y ago
      Walmart is able to provide cheap goods because it can strong-arm providers into taking a loss or operating at a break-even point just for the chance to sell at Walmart. It can also provide cheap goods because they pay their workers jack shit and instruct employees to use government subsidized healthcare and insurance. It's totally possible to provide good pay, healthcare, etc... to employees, still have healthy enough margin % to make Wall Street happy, keep the C-Suite well paid, all while providing a great service at competitive prices to consumers. Maybe not enough to enrich the owners to a quarter trillion dollars in net worth, but plenty enough to keep the ship going. Case in point: CostCo. Whole Foods prior to Amazon was another.
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        1. Nobody makes providers sell thru Walmart. 2. Nobody makes anyone buy from Walmart. 3. Nobody makes anyone work for Walmart. 4. Anybody is free to spin up a competitor to Walmart. 5. Walmart is not responsible for government wealth transfer programs. > It's totally possible to provide [...] You and anyone else are free to do so.
        3y ago
- tomcam 3y ago
  In many of the places Wal-Mart has the most problems, both police and private security are sharply limited in what actions they can take against shoplifters. And places like California, Oregon, and Washington won’t prosecute for crimes under about $950. What do you propose Wal-Mart do in these localities?
  - brvsft 3y ago
    A lot of people are under the impression that these stores can just eat the cost with insurance, which is, of course, an absurd notion because then the insurance company is losing too much money and will raise the premiums. Then Walmart, etc. can't afford the insurance unless they close their most problematic locations. People engage in a lot of magical thinking to justify theft since it seems like a harmless act. Thieves are just trying to feed their families! Insurance will cover it! Etc.! It's really unfortunate, they're going to learn the hard way as not only Walmart but other retail stores in their areas flee.
    - mrguyorama 3y ago
      No, insurance doesn't have to cover it, because even in these cases where large retailers are crying about theft, it's still not the primary cause of shrinkage in their businesses! Grocers still lose more product to employee theft or just breaking stuff during handling. Even in California where there's some conspiracy theory about how "It's the DAs fault the police aren't doing anything", as if it's the police's responsibility, or even their jurisdiction, to pick and choose who should go to jail. Cops should be bringing in people violating the law even if nobody ever went to prison!
      - scythe 3y ago
        At least one source gives shoplifting as the plurality of shrinkage at 36%, with employee theft close behind at 30%. But if theft isn't prosecuted, this would seem to affect incentives for both shoplifting and employee theft. https://lithospos.com/blog/shrinkage-in-retail-and-how-to-prevent-it/ https://lithospos.com/blog/shrinkage-in-retail-and-how-to-pr... Together this puts theft at a solid majority (66%) of shrinkage.
- brvsft 3y ago
  It's not unheard of in the US. The missing person case of Jennifer Kesse in Orlando, FL comes to mind. Her parents even had to file a lawsuit against the police because they refused to cooperate with private investigators after failing to make progress on the case.
- gumby 3y ago
  Well, banks hire private security guards, have stong safes (well, back when they handled cash) etc under practical pressure and pressure from their insurers. They don't rely solely on the police. On the other hand a lemonade stand will generally rely entirely on the police and on peoples' good nature. I sure hope they aren't armed! So on the spectrum between the two, don't we want a society where almost all interactions don't rely on private security guards? I feel like there has been an explosion of private security guards over the past 30 years, but I do see them in old movies so I don't know if my impression is correct.

Ajedi32 3y ago

To me that actually sounds like a clear example of a business that shouldn't have to hire private security. At least with bars you can claim that the bar is indirectly responsible for instigating the distributive behavior by serving people alcohol. I don't know how you make that argument for a Walmart.

nanidin 3y ago
In my state municipalities are required to spend 25% of their budget on police. So effectively 20% of the tax base of the municipality is being used to police Walmart. Walmart isn’t the only business in town, there are lots of businesses, convenience stores, restaurants, you name it - they share what’s left after Walmart, and it doesn’t seem fair.
hunter2_ 3y ago
I suppose an argument is that if they stop undercutting the prices of smaller businesses, then the rowdy behavior wouldn't gravitate toward them, it would be more evenly distributed. But letting the police focus 80% of such efforts there (instead of forcing some sort of change that blurs their focus) might not be a bad thing.

FuriouslyAdrift 3y ago

Walmarts are the epicenter of crime in many small towns. They are experimenting with putting police stations INSIDE the store, now. https://www.grocerydive.com/news/Atlanta-Walmart-reopen-store-with-police-substation/692707/ https://www.grocerydive.com/news/Atlanta-Walmart-reopen-stor...

brvsft 3y ago
Seems inevitable when it replaced all the other retail stores with merchandise you can steal. Where else would I go to steal something in a small town with a Walmart?
Semaphor 3y ago
Only semi related, but we have a synagogue here with it's own small police station. But I'm in Germany, it has been burned twice already.
- SauciestGNU 3y ago
  Pardon the insensitive question, but burned twice since the Holocaust? Is violent antisemitism still so prevalent? Did denazification fail so badly?
  - ceejayoz 3y ago
    It doesn't take a lot of extremists to cause a security threat; "lone wolf" scenarios are absolutely something Jewish places of worship have to worry about. Not just in Germany, and doubly so this week. Germany had a far-right coup attempt brewing late last year: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/07/germany-coup-arrests-reichsbuerger-heinrich/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/07/germany-coup... > German authorities on Wednesday arrested 25 people suspected of plotting to use armed force to storm parliament and violently overthrow the state, marking one of the country’s largest-ever raids targeting right-wing extremists. > Those arrested included a 71-year-old German aristocrat, a former lawmaker from the right-wing Alternative for Germany party and at least one former armed forces member, according to the public prosecutor and officials.

bko 3y ago

Walmart hourly salaries start at 14-19 an hour depending on location. They also abide by all the rules. What are you comparing it to? Mom and pop shops that have kids working there in getting paid under the counter at a lower wage? https://fortune.com/2023/09/08/walmart-cuts-starting-wage-new-employees-walmart-jobs-cashier-online-orders-minimum-wage-benefits/ https://fortune.com/2023/09/08/walmart-cuts-starting-wage-ne...

xkekjrktllss 3y ago
14-19 an hour is atrocious in 2023, and of course most of these employees are limited to part-time hours so the company can avoid paying for benefits, all while advising employees to use food stamps. Medicaid is rarely available to such employees because they will often make barely too much income to qualify so they try going without insurance. It's despicable and frankly so is anybody defending such arrangements.
thomastjeffery 3y ago
I assume they are comparing it to its direct competitors. Target is the main one.