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Scholars use the modern Mandarin reading of the Chinese characters in question, because the Xiongnu did not leave behind their own name. Even the affiliation of
by OfSanguineFire 3y ago
Scholars use the modern Mandarin reading of the Chinese characters in question, because the Xiongnu did not leave behind their own name. Even the affiliation of the Xiongnu language is unclear, with competing hypotheses. For similar groups where we do have an endonym or at least some non-Chinese name (e.g. the Khitan or the Tabgač), then that non-Chinese name is used.
- throwaway290 3y agoYes, I can read Wikipedia. In fact I wrote my comment precisely because I have. > Scholars use the modern Mandarin reading of the Chinese characters in question You are telling a half truth. They are using modern Mandarin reading based on old Chinese characters that themselves were originally chosen based on how the actual name of this culture sounded at the time. In other words, you can pick any vaguely similarly sounding word in Chinese or otherwise and it'll probably be true to life enough and without the unnecessary slur.
- OfSanguineFire 3y agoFWIW, I wouldn't recommend Wikipedia as a source: I’m familiar with the actual research into what language the Xiongnu may have spoken, and I have known some of the scholars involved personally. I must say I have never heard any concern whatsoever about the term Xiongnu being offensive. First of all, this niche of linguistics is mercifully free of the outrage culture found on social media or among academics in certain, mainly native-anglophone countries. Secondly, the Xiongnu are all dead by centuries, and people are hardly going to consider possible offense when there are no (agreed) modern representatives of the group. There are quite a few ethnonyms around that were originally pejorative, the Xiongnu are not unusual in this regard. As soon as agreement is reached on what language the Xiongnu spoke, and it happens to be a language we know enough about, it may well be that Xiongnu will be replaced by a phonetically more precise reading, just like other groups. Meanwhile, who cares.
- adhesive_wombat 3y agoMaybe we can move onto more important fretting about neanderthals having "ander" in the name and therefore being automatically "othered" in German.
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- throwaway290 3y agoYeah and Slavic people are called that thanks to being enslaved all the time. But this thread is not about them (or Neanderthal).
- adhesive_wombat 3y agoI'm being facetious: not only did neanderthals die out 40000 years ago, but they're named after the Neander valley where the first one was found. But in my opinion fretting about what we call them is as relevant to one ancient extinct group as the other. Slavs are a extant group who you can go and talk to.
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- throwaway290 3y agoEdit: I was wrong, the word "slave" comes from Slavic people's self-ethnonym, I remembered it the other way around.
- throwaway290 3y agoWhy are you justifying calling them a pejorative name? And saying it's okay because they're dead... what a bit of logic. > Meanwhile, who cares. That's the summary and we're back to my point being that this lack of care should be embarrassing for the field.