5 ms·

Yeah, and that's where the crime angle to this comes into play. Are the businesses really the "source of rowdy behavior", or is it actually the people who frequ

Yeah, and that's where the crime angle to this comes into play. Are the businesses really the "source of rowdy behavior", or is it actually the people who frequent those particular establishments? And if the latter, shouldn't that be the city's responsibility to deal with those people to make sure they aren't able to continue to repeatedly act in a disruptive manner requiring a police response? Why are they making the businesses pay for private security? Though as others have pointed out, bouncers have been a thing forever, so maybe I'm off base here...

robertlagrant 3y ago
Bouncers are there to keep your customers safe, so they don't go elsewhere and never come back. You don't need to mandate bars have bouncers. They want bouncers.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  (so they dont lose their alcohol license)
nanidin 3y ago
There is a Walmart in my metro area that is responsible for like 80% of all police calls within their municipality. This is the same Walmart that leeches off society in other ways like paying sub-living wages so that employees need to rely on social safety nets to survive. I'm not sure if they have to hire private security, but this is a prime example of a business that should be securing itself or changing location.
- NickC25 3y ago
  They should be mandated to hire private security. If they are utilizing the majority of the resources available but aren't willing to pay the real costs of that, well, they need to suck it up and pay.
  - ahtihn 3y ago
    I thought the US was like the most advanced nation in the world? And businesses are supposed to pay for their own security instead of relying on police? What next? Families of murder victims should cover the cost of the investigation?
    - NickC25 3y ago
      ITT: people defending the actions of a corporation owned by a family worth over 230 billion USD. Businesses should expect that society protects them, sure. But those same businesses can't then go and bribe the government to cut worker protection laws, labor laws, can't slash wages and expect that the government covers the costs of labor, etc... If Walmart paid their workers lavishly, gave them huge pensions, didn't engage in far-right lobbying to diminish worker protections, didn't demolish the proverbial Main Street all across America, sure, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and say that we should cover their security costs. But look at their actions over the last 35 years....they've enriched themselves greatly as a corporation, bribed the government, and told regular Americans to pound sand.
      - WalterBright 3y ago
        And provided inexpensive goods to the masses.
        spondylosaurus 3y ago
        https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/walmart-effect.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/walmart-effect.asp
        WalterBright 3y ago
        I shop at Walmart now and then, and benefit from the low prices. So does everyone else who shops there.
        NickC25 3y ago
- Ajedi32 3y ago
  To me that actually sounds like a clear example of a business that shouldn't have to hire private security. At least with bars you can claim that the bar is indirectly responsible for instigating the distributive behavior by serving people alcohol. I don't know how you make that argument for a Walmart.
  - nanidin 3y ago
    In my state municipalities are required to spend 25% of their budget on police. So effectively 20% of the tax base of the municipality is being used to police Walmart. Walmart isn’t the only business in town, there are lots of businesses, convenience stores, restaurants, you name it - they share what’s left after Walmart, and it doesn’t seem fair.
  - hunter2_ 3y ago
    I suppose an argument is that if they stop undercutting the prices of smaller businesses, then the rowdy behavior wouldn't gravitate toward them, it would be more evenly distributed. But letting the police focus 80% of such efforts there (instead of forcing some sort of change that blurs their focus) might not be a bad thing.
- FuriouslyAdrift 3y ago
  Walmarts are the epicenter of crime in many small towns. They are experimenting with putting police stations INSIDE the store, now. https://www.grocerydive.com/news/Atlanta-Walmart-reopen-store-with-police-substation/692707/ https://www.grocerydive.com/news/Atlanta-Walmart-reopen-stor...
  - brvsft 3y ago
    Seems inevitable when it replaced all the other retail stores with merchandise you can steal. Where else would I go to steal something in a small town with a Walmart?
  - Semaphor 3y ago
    Only semi related, but we have a synagogue here with it's own small police station. But I'm in Germany, it has been burned twice already.
    - SauciestGNU 3y ago
      Pardon the insensitive question, but burned twice since the Holocaust? Is violent antisemitism still so prevalent? Did denazification fail so badly?
      - ceejayoz 3y ago
        It doesn't take a lot of extremists to cause a security threat; "lone wolf" scenarios are absolutely something Jewish places of worship have to worry about. Not just in Germany, and doubly so this week. Germany had a far-right coup attempt brewing late last year: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/07/germany-coup-arrests-reichsbuerger-heinrich/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/07/germany-coup... > German authorities on Wednesday arrested 25 people suspected of plotting to use armed force to storm parliament and violently overthrow the state, marking one of the country’s largest-ever raids targeting right-wing extremists. > Those arrested included a 71-year-old German aristocrat, a former lawmaker from the right-wing Alternative for Germany party and at least one former armed forces member, according to the public prosecutor and officials.
- bko 3y ago
  Walmart hourly salaries start at 14-19 an hour depending on location. They also abide by all the rules. What are you comparing it to? Mom and pop shops that have kids working there in getting paid under the counter at a lower wage? https://fortune.com/2023/09/08/walmart-cuts-starting-wage-new-employees-walmart-jobs-cashier-online-orders-minimum-wage-benefits/ https://fortune.com/2023/09/08/walmart-cuts-starting-wage-ne...
  - xkekjrktllss 3y ago
    14-19 an hour is atrocious in 2023, and of course most of these employees are limited to part-time hours so the company can avoid paying for benefits, all while advising employees to use food stamps. Medicaid is rarely available to such employees because they will often make barely too much income to qualify so they try going without insurance. It's despicable and frankly so is anybody defending such arrangements.
  - thomastjeffery 3y ago
    I assume they are comparing it to its direct competitors. Target is the main one.

robertlagrant 3y ago

Bouncers are there to keep your customers safe, so they don't go elsewhere and never come back. You don't need to mandate bars have bouncers. They want bouncers.

yieldcrv 3y ago
(so they dont lose their alcohol license)

nanidin 3y ago

There is a Walmart in my metro area that is responsible for like 80% of all police calls within their municipality. This is the same Walmart that leeches off society in other ways like paying sub-living wages so that employees need to rely on social safety nets to survive. I'm not sure if they have to hire private security, but this is a prime example of a business that should be securing itself or changing location.

NickC25 3y ago
They should be mandated to hire private security. If they are utilizing the majority of the resources available but aren't willing to pay the real costs of that, well, they need to suck it up and pay.
- ahtihn 3y ago
  I thought the US was like the most advanced nation in the world? And businesses are supposed to pay for their own security instead of relying on police? What next? Families of murder victims should cover the cost of the investigation?
  - NickC25 3y ago
    ITT: people defending the actions of a corporation owned by a family worth over 230 billion USD. Businesses should expect that society protects them, sure. But those same businesses can't then go and bribe the government to cut worker protection laws, labor laws, can't slash wages and expect that the government covers the costs of labor, etc... If Walmart paid their workers lavishly, gave them huge pensions, didn't engage in far-right lobbying to diminish worker protections, didn't demolish the proverbial Main Street all across America, sure, I'd give them the benefit of the doubt and say that we should cover their security costs. But look at their actions over the last 35 years....they've enriched themselves greatly as a corporation, bribed the government, and told regular Americans to pound sand.
    - WalterBright 3y ago
      And provided inexpensive goods to the masses.
      - spondylosaurus 3y ago
        https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/walmart-effect.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/walmart-effect.asp
        WalterBright 3y ago
        I shop at Walmart now and then, and benefit from the low prices. So does everyone else who shops there.
      - NickC25 3y ago
Ajedi32 3y ago
To me that actually sounds like a clear example of a business that shouldn't have to hire private security. At least with bars you can claim that the bar is indirectly responsible for instigating the distributive behavior by serving people alcohol. I don't know how you make that argument for a Walmart.
- nanidin 3y ago
  In my state municipalities are required to spend 25% of their budget on police. So effectively 20% of the tax base of the municipality is being used to police Walmart. Walmart isn’t the only business in town, there are lots of businesses, convenience stores, restaurants, you name it - they share what’s left after Walmart, and it doesn’t seem fair.
- hunter2_ 3y ago
  I suppose an argument is that if they stop undercutting the prices of smaller businesses, then the rowdy behavior wouldn't gravitate toward them, it would be more evenly distributed. But letting the police focus 80% of such efforts there (instead of forcing some sort of change that blurs their focus) might not be a bad thing.
FuriouslyAdrift 3y ago
Walmarts are the epicenter of crime in many small towns. They are experimenting with putting police stations INSIDE the store, now. https://www.grocerydive.com/news/Atlanta-Walmart-reopen-store-with-police-substation/692707/ https://www.grocerydive.com/news/Atlanta-Walmart-reopen-stor...
- brvsft 3y ago
  Seems inevitable when it replaced all the other retail stores with merchandise you can steal. Where else would I go to steal something in a small town with a Walmart?
- Semaphor 3y ago
  Only semi related, but we have a synagogue here with it's own small police station. But I'm in Germany, it has been burned twice already.
  - SauciestGNU 3y ago
    Pardon the insensitive question, but burned twice since the Holocaust? Is violent antisemitism still so prevalent? Did denazification fail so badly?
    - ceejayoz 3y ago
      It doesn't take a lot of extremists to cause a security threat; "lone wolf" scenarios are absolutely something Jewish places of worship have to worry about. Not just in Germany, and doubly so this week. Germany had a far-right coup attempt brewing late last year: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/07/germany-coup-arrests-reichsbuerger-heinrich/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/07/germany-coup... > German authorities on Wednesday arrested 25 people suspected of plotting to use armed force to storm parliament and violently overthrow the state, marking one of the country’s largest-ever raids targeting right-wing extremists. > Those arrested included a 71-year-old German aristocrat, a former lawmaker from the right-wing Alternative for Germany party and at least one former armed forces member, according to the public prosecutor and officials.
bko 3y ago
Walmart hourly salaries start at 14-19 an hour depending on location. They also abide by all the rules. What are you comparing it to? Mom and pop shops that have kids working there in getting paid under the counter at a lower wage? https://fortune.com/2023/09/08/walmart-cuts-starting-wage-new-employees-walmart-jobs-cashier-online-orders-minimum-wage-benefits/ https://fortune.com/2023/09/08/walmart-cuts-starting-wage-ne...
- xkekjrktllss 3y ago
  14-19 an hour is atrocious in 2023, and of course most of these employees are limited to part-time hours so the company can avoid paying for benefits, all while advising employees to use food stamps. Medicaid is rarely available to such employees because they will often make barely too much income to qualify so they try going without insurance. It's despicable and frankly so is anybody defending such arrangements.
- thomastjeffery 3y ago
  I assume they are comparing it to its direct competitors. Target is the main one.