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I was already going to make a shrimp and egg gumbo (my personal favorite) this evening, but hey, something to read. Why shrimp and egg? Way back when, eggs were

I was already going to make a shrimp and egg gumbo (my personal favorite) this evening, but hey, something to read. Why shrimp and egg? Way back when, eggs were free if you had a chicken coop and they stretched meals. If you boil them beforehand and slice them in half to add at the end, the broth marinates the egg. And I have a LOT of eggs from ADHD store ordering. I've got a few facts and opinions on gumbos for the uninitiated. If you would like to make a gumbo but you are afraid of roux-making, you have options. While diehard white guys will tell you that you have to make a roux by hand with flour and oil / drippings, you can buy either the jarred version or the powdered version of the stuff and make a perfectly fine gumbo, and anyone who tells you that they can tell the difference is a liar. You will save a half hour to an hour to boot. The gumbo you get in a New Orleans restaurant is a "show gumbo." You can certainly make gumbos that thick at home, but these tend to be heavier on the roux or okra than what you'd normally find in someone's home. These tend to be smaller than average portions with a much heavier emphasis on the meat and veggies and more rice than normal. Cajuns tend to not mix meats when making their gumbo (well, except for duck and oyster), while creoles tend to have less rules. Again, it's purely a preference and expectations thing. Do what you like. File' is both a thickening agent and a flavoring agent. It is perfectly fine to eat a gumbo with roux and toss some file' in for flavor. The easiest way to differentiate between a creole and cajun gumbo (and most foods for that matter) is the inclusion of tomatoes. Cajuns didn't have access to them early on and they do not feature much in the cuisine. I prefer the cajun style of gumbo and I've detested every creole jambalaya I've ever eaten. The tomatoes add nothing to the dish but sour flavors and wetter rice. Anyone who tells you to put thyme in a gumbo is trying to be fancy. Gumbo ain't fancy. The proper rice to serve with a gumbo is long-grained rice from Louisiana. You can use Jasmine in a pinch, but for the best experience, you'll want to avoid basmati, short grained rices, par-boiled, etc, etc. Many people will make a mustard based southern potato salad and layer their bowl like this: potato salad on top of rice on top of gumbo. You're not looking to soak the potato salad in the gumbo, you're just allowing the gumbo to touch it and absorb some flavor.

brodouevencode 3y ago
Looks like someone knows what they are talking about, except maybe for > anyone who tells you that they can tell the difference is a liar I tried jarred once and there was a distinct difference. Maybe it had gone bad, I don't know, but it was enough for me to swear it off. Besides, roux is part of the process that I thoroughly enjoy. > The tomatoes add nothing to the dish but sour flavors and wetter rice. We grew up on Cajun food, but my dad (who was already the black sheep) would add tomatoes to everything. I do this as well, so I might be a bit of a heretic. The only meat mixing we do is with the sausage.
- MisterBastahrd 3y ago
  All those bottles of Kary's and Savoie's are not selling themselves to old Cajun ladies. But yeah, you might have gotten a skunky bottle given that the oil can technically go bad. Roux is something I do by hand if I have the time, but I don't sweat it otherwise. There's a methodology for doing it bulk in the oven I haven't tried yet. The tomatoes thing was mostly just me remembering what Kenji did to jambalaya on Serious Eats here https://www.seriouseats.com/creole-style-red-jambalaya-chicken-sausage-shrimp-recipe https://www.seriouseats.com/creole-style-red-jambalaya-chick.... That pot would be laughed out of any football game south of I-10. It's so wet that it's gross.
  - brodouevencode 3y ago
    I tried it in the oven and it went south, quick. It looked like chunky store bought brown gravy - a complete mess.
  - unwind 3y ago
    Uh that recipe/article is credited to Daniel Gritzer, not Kenji. You might not agree with it, but at least blame the right chef. :)
  - neverartful 3y ago
    Never thought I'd see mention of Kary's and Savoie's roux on this site. Nice surprise. I'm from south Louisiana and everyone in my family uses roux from a jar. Do yourself a favor and get the dry roux (without the oil). It doesn't go bad and makes a delicious gumbo. Oh, and the thought of tomatoes in a gumbo is hideous and nasty. Don't do that.
    - selimthegrim 3y ago
      Pat’s isn’t terrible either, at least as good as Savoie’s.
greenie_beans 3y ago
try paul proudhomme's recipe, it's quick and very dark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np3uGcdQNUw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np3uGcdQNUw you will definitely fuck it up a few times while learning, so i'd not try this on a day when you want to eat gumbo. try it the day before so you can fuck it up, try again, and then put the successful attempt in the fridge to use the next day.
- MisterBastahrd 3y ago
  Well, first off, I never said that I can't make one. I've made a roux several hundred times. It gets old. What chef Paul is showing is not a recipe, it's just literally how you make roux, and it's a poor demonstration honestly. Most people are afraid of cooking a roux over high heat, and his technique is exactly why. They use a wire whisk instead of a wooden spoon or wooden spatula, and the result is that flour gets caught in the corner of the pan or gets stuck and you end up with burnt bits which ruin the roux. Granted, chef Paul was a pro and knew how to handle his equipment, but... his momma would probably have slapped him had she seen him with that whisk.
  - greenie_beans 3y ago
    i never said you can't make one. i was responding to this specific part of your comment: "You will save a half hour to an hour to boot." sorry that wasn't clear in my original comment. the very hot method evangelized by paul makes this process take 10-15 minutes with practice. his method is hotter than most peoples' approach. i will stop here, because it feels like i unintentionally hit a nerve and arguing with peoples' opinion about roux is akin to arguing about a programming language.
pjmorris 3y ago
'Gumbo ain't fancy' and the rest have the ring of truth to me. I'd been meaning to make Chuck Taggart's gumbo [0] as his Red Beans and Rice recipe has been a staple in my house for years and his 'Gumbo Pages' seems to have good information, but the gumbo recipe seems to violate a number of your rules. Any commentary? [0] https://www.gumbopages.com/food/gumbo.html https://www.gumbopages.com/food/gumbo.html
jghn 3y ago
I've started doing the oven method for roux making [1] for darker roux and it's been life changing. I never had the patience before and now that's not an issue. [1] Example: https://www.seriouseats.com/cajun-gumbo-with-chicken-and-andouille-recipe https://www.seriouseats.com/cajun-gumbo-with-chicken-and-and...
- lagniappe 3y ago
  I do a two step roux (pun intended). I get to pecan color on the first roux, then start a second roux to a caramel shade, then mix them and by the time the second roux is done, the first has got to about a dark chocolate shade. The reason for this is you generally use a blonde roux for thickness, or a dark roux for flavor. I like okra and file but not everyone else does, so to get the thickness and flavor both, we use the two step.
Damogran6 3y ago
This Diehard White guy is triggered. :) Actually, I havn't found any Jarred Roux in Denver and would love the opportunity to try. We had a Hoity Toity restaurant downtown that made a $22 seafood gumbo that tastes great, but was offensive due to the cost...it was never meant to be Haute Cuisine
- greenie_beans 3y ago
  i would never eat gumbo from an inland state.
  - Damogran6 3y ago
    Yay? Don't have much choice. Interestingly, the cheapest and most expensive restaurants around here all get their seafood on the same Jet flights.
  - oh_sigh 3y ago
    Try stopping by Maxie's in Milwaukee before you repeat that statement :) Though maybe Lake Michigan is big enough for Wisconsin to not count as an inland state.
    - greenie_beans 3y ago
      i live in alabama. that is heresy.
      - oh_sigh 3y ago
        Better be Mobile then - I think the rest of AL counts as inland.
        greenie_beans 3y ago
        > Better be Mobile then - I think the rest of AL counts as inland. nice snark, but no. i'm in birmingham, and a cajun restaurant three doors down from me had a shipment of fresh seafood this morning. and fresh leidenheimer bread. they used to feed my cat their old shrimp so i know how fresh it is.
AlbertCory 3y ago
Excellent, Mr. Mister. I've both made my own roux, and bought it in a jar. There wasn't a huge taste difference, but the jarred stuff was almost TOO thick. Whereas in making my own, I got impatient at the "milk chocolate color" stage and didn't wait until the "dark chocolate color."
kjs3 3y ago
I've never had jar roux that didn't taste of stale oil. Maybe I've been unlucky, but I'm probably just a liar. Once you get the hang of making roux and realize you don't have to get it the color of black coffee to make good gumbo, it's just not that hard. And it's 10 cents worth of ingredients, not us$10 for a jar. But then, I'm a white guy so unworthy to comment.
- MightyBuzzard 3y ago
  [dead]
- MisterBastahrd 3y ago
  Almost all cajuns and creoles from Louisiana are white, guy.
wahern 3y ago
I use the microwave method for making a dark/chocolate roux. I never had the patience to practice making it on the stove, plus I don't own any teflon-coated fry pans to use as training wheels. My dad can do it in a pan, but then he learned the technique from a Cajun woman while living and working in Cajun country long ago. The nice thing about using the microwave is that setup and cleanup is easy, so even you do mess it up while learning, iterating is relatively easy, at least if you realize you messed it up before adding it to the pot.
silent_cal 3y ago
Are you from Louisiana? I am, and I've never even heard of shrimp and egg gumbo. I've also never had a gumbo that didn't have mixed meats.
- MisterBastahrd 3y ago
  My 7x great grandfather built the original St. Louis Cathedral and the Ursuline Convent, and the last member of my family to make it to the state got there in 1833. Eggs in gumbo is a Cajun thing that laced its way through the German Coast. A lot of cajuns frown on mixing meats. Chicken and sausage is fine. Chicken and shrimp is not. I don't really care as long as I don't see tomatoes floating around.
throwaway914 3y ago
I think I have something to offer you: Tomatoes are a sign of a court-boullion, or a 'couvillion'. https://www.deepsouthdish.com/2010/03/cajun-courtbouillon.html https://www.deepsouthdish.com/2010/03/cajun-courtbouillon.ht... Gumbo - as I was raised - doesn't include seafood. It's chicken and sausage. I do acknowledge 'seafood gumbo', and enjoy it heartily but when we teach it we teach the non-seafood gumbo first. I was told seafood in gumbo was a Northern influence, because we have other dishes like shrimp etoufee and jambalaya where seafood is well represented. I would say gumbo made with a roux is most common nowadays. I didn't know the file-based gumbo was probably how it originated based on seasonal availability. Sassafras grass, wow. :) I didn't know.
- MisterBastahrd 3y ago
  Oh, I know they're in a coubillion. But... that also is a creole dish. I also can't stand the dish because I don't like tomato with fish unless we're talking fried catfish with ketchup. In the beginning, there was ogombo from Africa, an okra stew made with tomatoes... and kombo, which was a native American dish made with sassafras. I've made gumbos with all three, but I tend to leave the okra gumbo to the true professionals who have done it long enough that it's no longer slimy... which is the exact opposite of what you want from the unadulterated African version of the dish.
  - selimthegrim 3y ago
    It’s not slimy if you use fresh tomatoes

brodouevencode 3y ago

Looks like someone knows what they are talking about, except maybe for > anyone who tells you that they can tell the difference is a liar I tried jarred once and there was a distinct difference. Maybe it had gone bad, I don't know, but it was enough for me to swear it off. Besides, roux is part of the process that I thoroughly enjoy. > The tomatoes add nothing to the dish but sour flavors and wetter rice. We grew up on Cajun food, but my dad (who was already the black sheep) would add tomatoes to everything. I do this as well, so I might be a bit of a heretic. The only meat mixing we do is with the sausage.

MisterBastahrd 3y ago
All those bottles of Kary's and Savoie's are not selling themselves to old Cajun ladies. But yeah, you might have gotten a skunky bottle given that the oil can technically go bad. Roux is something I do by hand if I have the time, but I don't sweat it otherwise. There's a methodology for doing it bulk in the oven I haven't tried yet. The tomatoes thing was mostly just me remembering what Kenji did to jambalaya on Serious Eats here https://www.seriouseats.com/creole-style-red-jambalaya-chicken-sausage-shrimp-recipe https://www.seriouseats.com/creole-style-red-jambalaya-chick.... That pot would be laughed out of any football game south of I-10. It's so wet that it's gross.
- brodouevencode 3y ago
  I tried it in the oven and it went south, quick. It looked like chunky store bought brown gravy - a complete mess.
- unwind 3y ago
  Uh that recipe/article is credited to Daniel Gritzer, not Kenji. You might not agree with it, but at least blame the right chef. :)
- neverartful 3y ago
  Never thought I'd see mention of Kary's and Savoie's roux on this site. Nice surprise. I'm from south Louisiana and everyone in my family uses roux from a jar. Do yourself a favor and get the dry roux (without the oil). It doesn't go bad and makes a delicious gumbo. Oh, and the thought of tomatoes in a gumbo is hideous and nasty. Don't do that.
  - selimthegrim 3y ago
    Pat’s isn’t terrible either, at least as good as Savoie’s.

greenie_beans 3y ago

try paul proudhomme's recipe, it's quick and very dark: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np3uGcdQNUw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np3uGcdQNUw you will definitely fuck it up a few times while learning, so i'd not try this on a day when you want to eat gumbo. try it the day before so you can fuck it up, try again, and then put the successful attempt in the fridge to use the next day.

MisterBastahrd 3y ago
Well, first off, I never said that I can't make one. I've made a roux several hundred times. It gets old. What chef Paul is showing is not a recipe, it's just literally how you make roux, and it's a poor demonstration honestly. Most people are afraid of cooking a roux over high heat, and his technique is exactly why. They use a wire whisk instead of a wooden spoon or wooden spatula, and the result is that flour gets caught in the corner of the pan or gets stuck and you end up with burnt bits which ruin the roux. Granted, chef Paul was a pro and knew how to handle his equipment, but... his momma would probably have slapped him had she seen him with that whisk.
- greenie_beans 3y ago
  i never said you can't make one. i was responding to this specific part of your comment: "You will save a half hour to an hour to boot." sorry that wasn't clear in my original comment. the very hot method evangelized by paul makes this process take 10-15 minutes with practice. his method is hotter than most peoples' approach. i will stop here, because it feels like i unintentionally hit a nerve and arguing with peoples' opinion about roux is akin to arguing about a programming language.

pjmorris 3y ago

'Gumbo ain't fancy' and the rest have the ring of truth to me. I'd been meaning to make Chuck Taggart's gumbo [0] as his Red Beans and Rice recipe has been a staple in my house for years and his 'Gumbo Pages' seems to have good information, but the gumbo recipe seems to violate a number of your rules. Any commentary? [0] https://www.gumbopages.com/food/gumbo.html https://www.gumbopages.com/food/gumbo.html

jghn 3y ago

I've started doing the oven method for roux making [1] for darker roux and it's been life changing. I never had the patience before and now that's not an issue. [1] Example: https://www.seriouseats.com/cajun-gumbo-with-chicken-and-andouille-recipe https://www.seriouseats.com/cajun-gumbo-with-chicken-and-and...

lagniappe 3y ago
I do a two step roux (pun intended). I get to pecan color on the first roux, then start a second roux to a caramel shade, then mix them and by the time the second roux is done, the first has got to about a dark chocolate shade. The reason for this is you generally use a blonde roux for thickness, or a dark roux for flavor. I like okra and file but not everyone else does, so to get the thickness and flavor both, we use the two step.

Damogran6 3y ago

This Diehard White guy is triggered. :) Actually, I havn't found any Jarred Roux in Denver and would love the opportunity to try. We had a Hoity Toity restaurant downtown that made a $22 seafood gumbo that tastes great, but was offensive due to the cost...it was never meant to be Haute Cuisine

greenie_beans 3y ago
i would never eat gumbo from an inland state.
- Damogran6 3y ago
  Yay? Don't have much choice. Interestingly, the cheapest and most expensive restaurants around here all get their seafood on the same Jet flights.
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  Try stopping by Maxie's in Milwaukee before you repeat that statement :) Though maybe Lake Michigan is big enough for Wisconsin to not count as an inland state.
  - greenie_beans 3y ago
    i live in alabama. that is heresy.
    - oh_sigh 3y ago
      Better be Mobile then - I think the rest of AL counts as inland.
      - greenie_beans 3y ago
        > Better be Mobile then - I think the rest of AL counts as inland. nice snark, but no. i'm in birmingham, and a cajun restaurant three doors down from me had a shipment of fresh seafood this morning. and fresh leidenheimer bread. they used to feed my cat their old shrimp so i know how fresh it is.

AlbertCory 3y ago

Excellent, Mr. Mister. I've both made my own roux, and bought it in a jar. There wasn't a huge taste difference, but the jarred stuff was almost TOO thick. Whereas in making my own, I got impatient at the "milk chocolate color" stage and didn't wait until the "dark chocolate color."

kjs3 3y ago

I've never had jar roux that didn't taste of stale oil. Maybe I've been unlucky, but I'm probably just a liar. Once you get the hang of making roux and realize you don't have to get it the color of black coffee to make good gumbo, it's just not that hard. And it's 10 cents worth of ingredients, not us$10 for a jar. But then, I'm a white guy so unworthy to comment.

MightyBuzzard 3y ago
[dead]
MisterBastahrd 3y ago
Almost all cajuns and creoles from Louisiana are white, guy.

wahern 3y ago

I use the microwave method for making a dark/chocolate roux. I never had the patience to practice making it on the stove, plus I don't own any teflon-coated fry pans to use as training wheels. My dad can do it in a pan, but then he learned the technique from a Cajun woman while living and working in Cajun country long ago. The nice thing about using the microwave is that setup and cleanup is easy, so even you do mess it up while learning, iterating is relatively easy, at least if you realize you messed it up before adding it to the pot.

silent_cal 3y ago

Are you from Louisiana? I am, and I've never even heard of shrimp and egg gumbo. I've also never had a gumbo that didn't have mixed meats.

MisterBastahrd 3y ago
My 7x great grandfather built the original St. Louis Cathedral and the Ursuline Convent, and the last member of my family to make it to the state got there in 1833. Eggs in gumbo is a Cajun thing that laced its way through the German Coast. A lot of cajuns frown on mixing meats. Chicken and sausage is fine. Chicken and shrimp is not. I don't really care as long as I don't see tomatoes floating around.

throwaway914 3y ago

I think I have something to offer you: Tomatoes are a sign of a court-boullion, or a 'couvillion'. https://www.deepsouthdish.com/2010/03/cajun-courtbouillon.html https://www.deepsouthdish.com/2010/03/cajun-courtbouillon.ht... Gumbo - as I was raised - doesn't include seafood. It's chicken and sausage. I do acknowledge 'seafood gumbo', and enjoy it heartily but when we teach it we teach the non-seafood gumbo first. I was told seafood in gumbo was a Northern influence, because we have other dishes like shrimp etoufee and jambalaya where seafood is well represented. I would say gumbo made with a roux is most common nowadays. I didn't know the file-based gumbo was probably how it originated based on seasonal availability. Sassafras grass, wow. :) I didn't know.

MisterBastahrd 3y ago
Oh, I know they're in a coubillion. But... that also is a creole dish. I also can't stand the dish because I don't like tomato with fish unless we're talking fried catfish with ketchup. In the beginning, there was ogombo from Africa, an okra stew made with tomatoes... and kombo, which was a native American dish made with sassafras. I've made gumbos with all three, but I tend to leave the okra gumbo to the true professionals who have done it long enough that it's no longer slimy... which is the exact opposite of what you want from the unadulterated African version of the dish.
- selimthegrim 3y ago
  It’s not slimy if you use fresh tomatoes